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Poppa Out

jas88 said:
If he was Brazilian and was coaching Sao Paulo or something they 100% would make him coach.
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No sh1t. But considering that the Brazilian league and São Paulo are more prestigious and of a higher standard than the A-Liga and Newcastle Jets, the analogy’s about as relevant as the price of fish in the Gobi Desert..
 
zimbos05 said:
I bet you spend some time practicing your swing in the loungeroom or on the range. And when you shank it, you go back and reassess what you did, try to make it better.
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I've been playing long enough to know my limitations and just enjoy the social aspect these days. Practice is boring.
zimbos05 said:
Why can't the same apply to the coach. We go back and reassess where we went wrong and fix it. If the coach is where we went wrong, then nothing wrong in wanting to fix that.
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It does, we can, and we should do so after the Asian Cup.
 
Encomium said:
The FFA expected to get to the round of 16 in the past, now it's changed to a lowered bar?
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We have never "expected" to get to the R16. It's always been a goal rather than an expectation. If it's your expectation then you've lost a bit of touch with football reality.
 
Frankly Speaking said:
good grief, rf, how many clubs have to fire Kewell for you to change your mind?

My pick would be Aloisi, if we have to go local.
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Harry Kewell is running well in the Vietnamese league despite his previous failures head coaching in Europe but if we had to go for one of the Aloisi brethren as Socceroos head coach then arguably John Aloisi would be better compared to Ross Aloisi.
 
Alex M said:
We have never "expected" to get to the R16. It's always been a goal rather than an expectation. If it's your expectation then you've lost a bit of touch with football reality.
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It was 'their' expectation, it's how they would say it's been successful or not, maybe we can call that par.
It's not like we had to face France in the knockout game, the round of 16 should still be the 'expectation' of success imho.
 
rebelliousfeminist974 said:
Harry Kewell is running well in the Vietnamese league despite his previous failures head coaching in Europe but if we had to go for one of the Aloisi brethren as Socceroos head coach then arguably John Aloisi would be better compared to Ross Aloisi.
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He failed in Japan too. Good on him if he’s going well in Vietnam, but surely he has to be tested at a higher level than that before being considered for the Socceroos. Even a few years in the A League might do. Vietnam simply isn’t enough.
 
rebelliousfeminist974 said:
Harry Kewell is running well in the Vietnamese league despite his previous failures head coaching in Europe but if we had to go for one of the Aloisi brethren as Socceroos head coach then arguably John Aloisi would be better compared to Ross Aloisi.
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We had some very promising results under Ross before he pissed off and left us after a couple of games.

I wouldn't write him off as a coach in general over John.
 
SocceroosFan84 said:
Perennial winner at A-League level?

His teams lost every Grand Final they've been in.
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zimbos05 said:
You said A-league level. He's never won the A-League. Credit for the Asia Cup for sure, but nothing more. So perennial winner is a bit false
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For some reason people treat losing a grand final as some huge negative. It is better to win, but the point is he makes the grand final. Which means he puts teams into the position to be successful. 10 years. Missed finals on two occasions. Two times premiers, one cup win, one continental win. 5 Grand finals.

Frankly Speaking said:
ACL
12 years ago in a very different football world
and they played horrible football and rode their luck to an astounding extent
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They rode their luck in the final leg against Al Hilal. They were the best side in the comp. This was true Popa haramball. The rest of the competition was not.

By any measure he is successful and a perennial winner. He established WSW from nothing. And turned around both Perth and MVC. He did pretty much the same thing with the national team. There are enough things to look at critically. We don't need to make things up.

Encomium said:
Our last group were Denmark, France and Tunisia. France like the USA were the powerhouse in the group, Denmark were perennial performers at the WC, Tunisia weren't bad. Turkey it was their first WC in decades, same for Paraguay.
Of which we got out of the Qatar group to the round of 16. The FFA have said they evaluate success on getting to the round of 16.
It seems like regression of ambition, or setting a standard of mediocrity to me.
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We got lucky playing the same way at the last world cup as well. It was a group with better teams then, and it was a group with better teams now. Again we can acknowledge the success while still being critical of aspects before deciding if it is right to move forward this way. We don't need to diminish what has been achieved to do this.
 
Cunningstunt said:
We got lucky playing the same way at the last world cup as well. It was a group with better teams then, and it was a group with better teams now. Again we can acknowledge the success while still being critical of aspects before deciding if it is right to move forward this way. We don't need to diminish what has been achieved to do this.
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Don't get me wrong, I don't put this on the players at all, they all played to their best in the conditions set for them. I don't want to diminish their efforts at all, as they played admirably.
I put it down to the coach, he made some bad decisions that cost us. We had a good chance to progress, it's not like in previous games where we played Italy and Argentina in their prime, the game was in our hands.
Same for the ambition, the round of 32 we will more than not face opponents much equal to us and to not progress should be seen as below par for me.
It's fine to disagree and I guess I am venting some frustration atm.
 
Hounddog said:
The situation with Poppa reminds me a lot of the situation with David Moyes at West Ham. Fans were complaining about exactly the same things.

Sacking Moyes was the right decision, but was also a big part of West Ham being related.

When West Ham finally found the right manager in Nuno it was too late, and fans were still complaining about the same things.

The siver lining is, being relegated was the best thing that could have happened to West Ham. A lot of things that needed to be fixed, are being fixed.

The judgement on Poppa is IMO simple, this WC is the bar, is the next move higher or lower?

The correct next step is the coaching team get together, review the tournament and plan the next steps.

Good coaches learn from their mistakes. I would gjve Poppa an opportunity to demonstrate that.

Many NRL fans might assume Andrew Johns would make a good NRL coach, fans are often wrong.
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No his selection and performance is the bar.

1) What squad selection made a real difference to the team. Beach and Herrington and Volpato. Each of them were obvious by the time they were selected and his predecessor was chasing one of them four years ago.

2) What squad selections were dubious - many - both during the selection process and the final selection. This is a multi-game tournament where you need to be able to play in a number of ways (especially if you have players available for selection that allows that. His choice was to take a squad that was purely set up to defend. That is a bar we should not accept

3) He and two of his three assistants were Socceroo CBs but they can't teach an 18 year old CB how to keep a straight line in defence. The one against Switzerland was the warning, yesterday he should have been trained better.

4) Purely objective, his predecessor made last 16, he made last 32. FIFA ranking when he took over 25, FIFA ranking now 28.

Given him an extension without apparent KPIs should be looked at by the internal auditors and somebody at the FA sacked. They removed the manager's prime financial motivation to at least attaining the level as the last World Cup. They spent a likely $750,000 to protect for continuity in case he had a very deep run (an unlikely outcome) while ignoring the the likelihood of a par or sub-par performance (more likelihood) that would have ensured at least another $17million in revenue.

That is also ignoring the damage in future revenue streams. Popovic is an experienced manager and since his ACL win over a decade ago there is little evidence that he has learnt from any of his Grand Final mistakes (often when he had the better team)
 
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Cunningstunt said:
For some reason people treat losing a grand final as some huge negative. It is better to win, but the point is he makes the grand final. Which means he puts teams into the position to be successful. 10 years. Missed finals on two occasions. Two times premiers, one cup win, one continental win. 5 Grand finals.
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Are you serious? Losing a grand final is not a negative? Is the point not to win competitions? No one really remembers the runners up. No one loses a Grand Final and goes, "you know what, at least we participated. I am so happy". This is participation medals in primary school level.

He may put those teams in a position to win, but he then fails and stumbles when it counts. Exactly what has happened in the world cup. Stumbled when it matters.
 
patjennings said:
I couldn't see the value in the extension when it was given. I certainly don't agree with it now. Pay out his 6 months contract and make the change. We will play UAE, Sth Korea, Iran and Japan in the knockouts. We are not winning any of the last three with his squad selections and tactics.
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He has already beaten Japan with his selections and tactics. (with an own goal)

Others said similar things about the group stage at the WC and all through qualifying. Popaball gets results. So did Arnieball. I don't understand the idea that we can't beat better sides. The pens go the other way and these these conversations are completely different. At a certain point the results are secondary. It takes air away from what should be the conversation around if could implement a style and setup to continue the progression of this group and have them reach their potential.

Pasquali said:
Popa did a great job by turning around our world cup qualifying where it looked like we may not qualify at one point. Popa has been unlucky that the older players are somewhat past it, but the younger players aren't quite there yet (although some would argue they are). Our wing back depth is absolutely shocking, and have been unlucky there with injuries. Although having said that I find his football boring AF, and would prefer more entertaining football.
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I think this is pretty much where I am at. But more than just boring football, I don't think it will get the best out of this group as the move into their best years.

That is the biggest furphy out there that we were in danger of not qualifying. We were 2 points behind second with 24 points still up for grabs. That is ignoring another complete round after that and intercontinental playoffs. The fact that the FA accepted his resignation after one of the most successful tenures in Australia's history without a whimper and yet rolled out 'continuity' as the excuse for a premature extension for Popovic is ridiculous.

The simple answer when Arnold said he was burnt out would be to say to him let's not rush, Rene is fully qualified, let him take over for a window or two - recharge - and come back fully refreshed.
 
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zimbos05 said:
Are you serious? Losing a grand final is not a negative? Is the point not to win competitions? No one really remembers the runners up. No one loses a Grand Final and goes, "you know what, at least we participated. I am so happy". This is participation medals in primary school level.

He may put those teams in a position to win, but he then fails and stumbles when it counts. Exactly what has happened in the world cup. Stumbled when it matters.
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Missing the finals, getting relegated, finishing bottom half etc is a failure. Making the grand final is a good season with a disappointing end.
 
Cunningstunt said:
Missing the finals, getting relegated, finishing bottom half etc is a failure. Making the grand final is a good season with a disappointing end.
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It really depends on the quality of your teams. Purely on ALM terms there is no P& R. If your team is one of the best resourced team missing out of the finals is definite failure. Take it back to the Ange Brisbane - Arnie CCM days. Neither were the best resourced though Brisbane were up there. However they both viewed not finishing top 2 as a failure. That also meant more often than not a Grand Final appearance. Same with Arnie at SFC.

If you are a City, SFC, Victory or WSW and now AFC you have been the best resourced you should be targeting top 2 . Not making the top 4 should be considered a failure, not making the finals catastrophic.
 
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Alex M said:
I disagree with you on a couple of points.

All we have are a group of youngsters with potential. Only Bos and Circati are playing at a reasonably high level week in week out. They need to develop at club level. It's not the job of a National Team coach to develop them. Apart from tournaments he gets to work with them for a couple days 5 times a year.

As for an attacking identity we have never had one. There is a reason that we are seen world wide as a tough defensive national team. It's because that is our natural style. With our last attack minded coach we struggled to score in open play and relied in Timmy to do it for us. Most of our goals in Ange's reign came from set pieces, free kicks and penalties. This natural Australian attacking nature is a myth. I've watched us play for 60 years (although the first 10 years were as a kid and that doesn't really count for solid analysis) and we have always been a defence first nation.
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It doesn't bother me that we are defence first. I think with the players we have that's sensible. But every Australian sporting team has an attacking intent. With this team that needed to be an intent to counter aggressively imo. This plays into our defensive strengths but gives us an outlet to go at the other team and punch back. Popovic's team had nothing going forward. It needs to change.
 
BA81 said:
As I’ve said on here I’m not at all opposed to him taking the reins someday further down the line, but it’s just too fucken soon for him now.

But as you imply, it’s a question of 💲 in the end. However, I die on the hill that if Soccer Australia(which was basically always an accounting-error or two away from bankruptcy) could afford Venables as NT coach 30 years ago…well you get the drift, I think.
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I'm just throwing a name out we can afford. I'd prefer Muscat. I wish we had a technical director. He could provide direction to Popovic to loosen the reins.
 
rebelliousfeminist974 said:
I don't mind Harry Kewell becoming the new Socceroos head coach especially since his bold, attacking style of play means that we can play entertaining football as opposed to being bored to death by Popaball and its ultra-defensive park the bus mentality and he has experience head coaching in Europe.
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He probably has the poorest record of any Australian coach. Has usually been sacked within months. Lasted just over a year at Crawley Town with a <40% win ratio.
Doing ok in Vietnam at the moment, but the team is usually top 3.
 
The FA's response from Heather Garrick is just pure spin, they haven't replaced the national curriculum which whether people liked or it not set up a style of play for all the national teams to follow which can used and tweaked over time and they threw it away and haven't replaced the document since and given the discussion we are having about Popa and where we should be going it's kind of a poetic justice we come back to this discussion.

Its clearly shows me there is a lack of trust and accountability when it comes to the footballing decisions they are making and whether its sound for the game's direction and future, clearly we have ambition on the field but off the field its not aligned with the actions off it.

A change of mindset is needed if we are serious about making the next step, as Ale Circati said and along with the people that got up at 4am which tells me people care about how far we can go and we don't want to be underdogs no more as a result.
 
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