ClockworkOrange said:

Yep. I agree. My message to Popa would be: “Popa, you did well getting us out of a pretty tough group. Congratulations. But, when it eventuated that Egypt was our opponent, the new expectation was that we’d try to win that game by outplaying them and scoring goals. Just when we seemed to be doing that, you took wrong options and made poor decisions and we failed (the gk and shootout decisions were also diabolical). If you can recognise these errors on your part and evolve, you’ve earned the chance to do better. If you still believe your decisions were the right ones, then we need you to go.”

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I don't think you have evaluated Egypt correctly. They aren't Bangladesh, they are good side of similar ability to nations like Turkey, Paraguay and the USA that we played in the group stage and Japan who we played in the qualifiers. Sure we could have gotten a much tougher draw in the R32, but I've no idea why you think that we should suddenly become France once we emerge from the group stage.

Cunningstunt said:

He has already beaten Japan with his selections and tactics.

Others said similar things about the group stage at the WC and all through qualifying. Popaball gets results. So did Arnieball. I don't understand the idea that we can't beat better sides. The pens go the other way and these these conversations are completely different. At a certain point the results are secondary. It takes air away from what should be the conversation around if could implement a style and setup to continue the progression of this group and have them reach their potential.

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This is exactly the question we should be asking after the Asian Cup (even if we win it).

ClockworkOrange said:

The system he implemented was the right one for the time and circumstances - to qualify and get us out of the group. 100% agree that he only had a short time with this team. If Volpato was part of the program for more than 2 weeks, the system might have been different.
But, 1: This system relies on good fortune - scoring a large percentage of the few chances created, 2. In future, this group of players are capable of performing in a better system - one that increases the chances of winning.

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I agree with all of this.

My disagreement would be about changing the style, system and expectations for Egypt with one week to prepare. Others have mentioned changing what we did mid match when we had the momentum.
The best example I can think of is Germany v Paraguay. Germany played their normal style (as far as I know). They did this through qualifiers and the group stage. Even with all that experience and practice implementing their style, Paraguay were still able to haramball them. We played one way under Popa. He took over from a manager who played a very similar way. We adhoc change the style because we consider ourselves better than a particular opponent. So have one week to learn and implement. Do we get a draw v Paraguay? Who were able to beat Germany? Who finally conceded v France in the 70th as I am watching this morning.
You have the style and structure for better or worse. It gets credit for getting us to where we finished, and I believe it's flaws should mean we move on from it.
But the idea Popa made a mistake continuing with it and not changing to something different on the back of zero experience seems crazy.

Alex M said:

I don't think you have evaluated Egypt correctly. They aren't Bangladesh, they are good side of similar ability to nations like Turkey, Paraguay and the USA that we played in the group stage and Japan who we played in the qualifiers. Sure we could have gotten a much tougher draw in the R32, but I've no idea why you think that we should suddenly become France once we emerge from the group stage.

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I’m really just saying we should have treated them as equals and tried to win the game, rather than play for penalties.

Cunningstunt said:

I agree with all of this.

My disagreement would be about changing the style, system and expectations for Egypt with one week to prepare. Others have mentioned changing what we did mid match when we had the momentum.
The best example I can think of is Germany v Paraguay. Germany played their normal style (as far as I know). They did this through qualifiers and the group stage. Even with all that experience and practice implementing their style, Paraguay were still able to haramball them. We played one way under Popa. He took over from a manager who played a very similar way. We adhoc change the style because we consider ourselves better than a particular opponent. So have one week to learn and implement. Do we get a draw v Paraguay? Who were able to beat Germany? Who finally conceded v France in the 70th as I am watching this morning.
You have the style and structure for better or worse. It gets credit for getting us to where we finished, and I believe it's flaws should mean we move on from it.
But the idea Popa made a mistake continuing with it and not changing to something different on the back of zero experience seems crazy.

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Watch the game from half time till we scored and even 15 mins after. That period is not totally changing the system, it’s simply increasing our attacking intent Then see what happens after Popa takes Ira and Volpato off. Egypt come back into the game and we sit deeper and deeper.
As Tommy Oar said after the game. Playing with more attacking intent doesn’t automatically weaken your defence, it can help it because you are defending less.

Alex M said:

This is exactly the question we should be asking after the Asian Cup (even if we win it).

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More than that. What would everyone be saying if we won the coin flip and progressed? God forbid we haramed Messi. All of a sudden results are stratospheric. But it is still Popaball.
My frustration with the conversation is most of it is short term and short sighted. Before the WC he was an idiot and we were going to lose all 3. After Turkey everyone recants. Back to the US and everyone says if he doesn't get the result v Paraguay he is an idiot again. Now the same after losing the coin flip. Every match has been pure Popaball. It is exactly what I expected prior to the WC.

Cunningstunt said:

I agree with all of this.

My disagreement would be about changing the style, system and expectations for Egypt with one week to prepare. Others have mentioned changing what we did mid match when we had the momentum.
The best example I can think of is Germany v Paraguay. Germany played their normal style (as far as I know). They did this through qualifiers and the group stage. Even with all that experience and practice implementing their style, Paraguay were still able to haramball them. We played one way under Popa. He took over from a manager who played a very similar way. We adhoc change the style because we consider ourselves better than a particular opponent. So have one week to learn and implement. Do we get a draw v Paraguay? Who were able to beat Germany? Who finally conceded v France in the 70th as I am watching this morning.
You have the style and structure for better or worse. It gets credit for getting us to where we finished, and I believe it's flaws should mean we move on from it.
But the idea Popa made a mistake continuing with it and not changing to something different on the back of zero experience seems crazy.

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The style against Paraguay was spot on in my view. We needed to draw that game. There was zero advantage in winning it. So we played to minimise the risk of losing.
Against Egypt we had to win that game. If we’d had the absolute best penalty takers and penalty stopper and thought this was our best chance then, sure, play to our strength and let it go to pens. But, I believe we should have tried to win it in regular time when we were on top, rather than focusing on not losing it.
Different tactics for different circumstances.

Cunningstunt said:

More than that. What would everyone be saying if we won the coin flip and progressed? God forbid we haramed Messi. All of a sudden results are stratospheric. But it is still Popaball.
My frustration with the conversation is most of it is short term and short sighted. Before the WC he was an idiot and we were going to lose all 3. After Turkey everyone recants. Back to the US and everyone says if he doesn't get the result v Paraguay he is an idiot again. Now the same after losing the coin flip. Every match has been pure Popaball. It is exactly what I expected prior to the WC.

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Popa’s not an idiot. My only real criticism of the lineup for Egypt was again wasting Ira at 9. We scored twice against Turkey yet never played that formation again?
Other than that, my only gripe is that we didn’t push on to win in regular time and instead seemed to play for pens.

Alex M said:

We have a very young team with no superstars (maybe a couple of potential ones) and have only gotten to the last 16 in modern times twice. A loss in the round of 32 isn't a failure.

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the way we played is an embarrassing failure
that's on the coach not the players but it was humiliating
we played the worst football in the competition

Cunningstunt said:

More than that. What would everyone be saying if we won the coin flip and progressed? God forbid we haramed Messi. All of a sudden results are stratospheric. But it is still Popaball.
My frustration with the conversation is most of it is short term and short sighted. Before the WC he was an idiot and we were going to lose all 3. After Turkey everyone recants. Back to the US and everyone says if he doesn't get the result v Paraguay he is an idiot again. Now the same after losing the coin flip. Every match has been pure Popaball. It is exactly what I expected prior to the WC.

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Supporters are always a bit emotional and volatile. I've always thought (and stated in these forums) that Popa and Arnold before him did a very good job with what we had and that we should stay with Popovic until the Asian Cup. Both of them had a group of players that on paper should be no more than top 50 but took them to the top 30. We still have a similar group of players in ability but there is no doubt that we have more young players with the potential to rise above that then we have had for 25 years. If those players progress (they haven't yet (apart from Bos & Circati IMO) and start to get experience in the top leagues (experience at a World Cup is fine but is no substitute for week to week at a high level) we stay pretty much where we are.

As to the future so far Popovic has shown no real ability (or maybe its just desire) to change from his favoured defensive or attacking structures. He mostly picks players that fit that structure. He does pick a player or two that don't fit (Irankunda is an example) but that usually means they aren't used to fulfil their potential. That's why even if we win the Asian Cup I think its better all round that we part company with Popovic and than him for his services. He will be able to get a good job in clubland and we can get a coach that can develop a system that suits our players more.

JS96 said:

It's just frustrating we couldn't try Toure and Irankunda together again.

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That's what I said when Toure came on for Irankunda.

Cunningstunt said:

More than that. What would everyone be saying if we won the coin flip and progressed? God forbid we haramed Messi. All of a sudden results are stratospheric. But it is still Popaball.
My frustration with the conversation is most of it is short term and short sighted. Before the WC he was an idiot and we were going to lose all 3. After Turkey everyone recants. Back to the US and everyone says if he doesn't get the result v Paraguay he is an idiot again. Now the same after losing the coin flip. Every match has been pure Popaball. It is exactly what I expected prior to the WC.

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I would say exactly the same thing. Popovic is way above his level, which is mediocre A League.

JS96 said:

It's just frustrating we couldn't try Toure and Irankunda together again.

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That's what I said when Toure came on for Irankunda.

That was the height of stupidity from Popovic.

Frankly Speaking said:

I would say exactly the same thing. Popovic is way above his level, which is mediocre A League.

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I appreciate consistency if you don't let results cloud what you want in terms of style. For the most people it doesn't happen.

Popa is a perennial winner at Aleague level. There is not a single club he has been to that has not turned around and been successful.

Frankly Speaking said:

I would say exactly the same thing. Popovic is way above his level, which is mediocre A League.

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Where would you rate Nagelsmith? Unable to get that German squad beyond the last 32?
Where would you rate Bielsa? Unable to get 16th ranked Uruguay out of the group stages.

Saw an interesting point today. We subbed Ryan for Redmayne last time in the penalty shoot out. It was known that Ryan is not great at penalties, so why was he subbed on.

Cunningstunt said:

More than that. What would everyone be saying if we won the coin flip and progressed? God forbid we haramed Messi. All of a sudden results are stratospheric. But it is still Popaball.
My frustration with the conversation is most of it is short term and short sighted. Before the WC he was an idiot and we were going to lose all 3. After Turkey everyone recants. Back to the US and everyone says if he doesn't get the result v Paraguay he is an idiot again. Now the same after losing the coin flip. Every match has been pure Popaball. It is exactly what I expected prior to the WC.

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Its easy to put hypotheticals and be like, "would you be saying this if". I think everyone was fair to praise him after Turkiye. However, that doesn't mean that all this criticism is unwarranted. Popa is the manager. He has the ability to change perspectives and views. He instead did the opposite. He had some positive going for him after Turkiye, but then chose to go even more negative, and it all cost us. Game against Egypt wasn't a coin flip. It was his penalty plan and he got it horribly wrong. Penalties are not 100% luck.

Cunningstunt said:

I appreciate consistency if you don't let results cloud what you want in terms of style. For the most people it doesn't happen.

Popa is a perennial winner at Aleague level. There is not a single club he has been to that has not turned around and been successful.

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Perennial winner at A-League level?

His teams lost every Grand Final they've been in.