- Thread Author
- #621
Good detail, JS!
Match stats/analysis for recent Socceroo games
- Thread starter Decentric
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- Thread Author
- #622
I’m going to analyse a few teams at the WC and relate it to an Aus context.
When Netherlands have played in Ball Possession they play a 4-3-3 attacking midfield triangle.
…..X…………X……….X………X
……………………….x
………..,,,,x…………..,,,,,,,,,,x
…..x……………….. X………..,,,,x
They lose it and initially it changes to a 4-5-1, 1:4 midfield, with the 2 wingers dropping back in a line with the attacking midfielders.
Then it becomes a 5-4-1 flat midfield in Ball Possession Opposition, as the opposition build up penetrates deeper.
Aus ends up with a 5-4-1 flat midfield too in the defensive third in BPO, when after first losing the ball it is a 5-2-3.
When Aus regains the ball in the Attacking Transition the shape usually becomes a 3-4-3 building up forwards. Until it loses the ball in the attacking half it becomes a 5-2-3 again.
So deep, the Dutch and Aus play the same formation, but with different formations in other main moments of the game and different parts of the pitch.
When Netherlands have played in Ball Possession they play a 4-3-3 attacking midfield triangle.
…..X…………X……….X………X
……………………….x
………..,,,,x…………..,,,,,,,,,,x
…..x……………….. X………..,,,,x
They lose it and initially it changes to a 4-5-1, 1:4 midfield, with the 2 wingers dropping back in a line with the attacking midfielders.
Then it becomes a 5-4-1 flat midfield in Ball Possession Opposition, as the opposition build up penetrates deeper.
Aus ends up with a 5-4-1 flat midfield too in the defensive third in BPO, when after first losing the ball it is a 5-2-3.
When Aus regains the ball in the Attacking Transition the shape usually becomes a 3-4-3 building up forwards. Until it loses the ball in the attacking half it becomes a 5-2-3 again.
So deep, the Dutch and Aus play the same formation, but with different formations in other main moments of the game and different parts of the pitch.
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- Thread Author
- #623
Another WC phenomenon occurred in England v Croatia.
Croatia with the ball often tried to play in triangles and diamonds.
Players had to move a bit off the ball and passed in distances from 5, 10 to 15 metres. Aus tries to do this most of the time, but Croatia does it better as their players are technically superior to Aussies.
Meanwhile, England formed bigger triangles and diamonds where they often passed and received over bigger distances - like 15 -25 metres. Not all the time, but I don’t think I’ve seen players play as effectively passing with the inside of the foot over these bigger distances. The body shape and technique was perfect. When receiving they quickly assumed good body position too.
I felt like English players hit very accurate passes in some 3-4 passing sequences, with only minimal width passing lanes., resulting in eye of the needle passing being normalised. Of course they gained territory too. Very, very impressive!
Croatia with the ball often tried to play in triangles and diamonds.
Players had to move a bit off the ball and passed in distances from 5, 10 to 15 metres. Aus tries to do this most of the time, but Croatia does it better as their players are technically superior to Aussies.
Meanwhile, England formed bigger triangles and diamonds where they often passed and received over bigger distances - like 15 -25 metres. Not all the time, but I don’t think I’ve seen players play as effectively passing with the inside of the foot over these bigger distances. The body shape and technique was perfect. When receiving they quickly assumed good body position too.
I felt like English players hit very accurate passes in some 3-4 passing sequences, with only minimal width passing lanes., resulting in eye of the needle passing being normalised. Of course they gained territory too. Very, very impressive!
- Thread Author
- #624
One of Aus’s models for a good, attacking football team, Brazil, seems to have lost their flashy aspects when they play.
In the past there would be all sorts of dribbling from attacking players, outside of the foot and shoelace passing, neat little lobs, etc, which were entertaining to watch. Against Morocco, it was harder differentiating Brazil, compared to the past. Brazil in comparison were always known as the entertainers.
Sad.
In the past there would be all sorts of dribbling from attacking players, outside of the foot and shoelace passing, neat little lobs, etc, which were entertaining to watch. Against Morocco, it was harder differentiating Brazil, compared to the past. Brazil in comparison were always known as the entertainers.
Sad.
Brazil has lost its flair and entertaining style as all its top young players go to Europe in their late teens and learn to play more regimented European style football.Some of their lesser players go to 2nd or 3rd tier clubs and still show the tricks of jogo bonito.When Marco Tulio played for the Mariners a few seasons ago he would flick the ball over opponents heads and slip around them before they knew what had happened.It was a pleasure to see such artistry and skill.
LFC
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from my reviews of Brazil’s jogo bonito decline last year its root cause is the advancements of academies/costs/and the many of the low income burbs etc have been getting bull dozed new developments last couple of decades.
The days of the young Pele's etc playing small sided games in the streets diminished greatly.
Academy costs above poverty line fams huge challenge.
Club/academies pluck out the promising ones but like everywhere many slip through the gaps nowadays.
Look I'm sure the DNA is there but the professionalism in the EU and surrounds are ahead competition wise.
In some ways its not them.
From my surfing background experience watching talented surfers who then turn to Pro ranks.
Some just can't replicate their brilliant free spirit surfing to competition strategic disciplines needed.
I feel this applies a lot to the jogo bonito free lance players in their DNA.
Mind you they still have brilliant players but not like the legends of the past - I still marvel what Ronaldinho did with that ball and to opponents like he was in those backstreets playing futsal.
The last of them imo modern times.
Cunningstunt
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Ronaldinho might be my favourite player I have ever watched. I think Messi is the best, Cruyff's influence on the game is unrivaled, and I love a Le Tissier highlight reel. But for someone who was an artist, and a winner, Ronaldinho. He might be the last of his kind.
This goes to what people were whinging about in one of the other threads. About the homogeneous path football has been on. The goal is still to win, and there are styles that are more effective at this. If you care about national styles / identities, the artistic elements of the game, this is only going one way.
LFC
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No argument from me above though there is a couple of others - Pele at the time was the original Ronaldinho, The Hand Of God fella
, another massive influence, good ol Le Tiss, great player throw in Bergkamp but they both are not to the levels of those other Influencers in todays jargon. Messi is the modern day GOAT.yep that it is going one way.
Coaching from development ages is choking out the players we marvel at of the decades past, I suppose new ones no doubt will come in the style of todays game - we wait and wonder which robots will stand out in WC'34 onwards
.Hillbilly55
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The block at the 17.06 moment. Was that where our player actually managed to squeeze the ball through to a forward Roo (can't remember who it was)who was in acres of space. That it was pulled back reeked of the Ref being paid to do a job on us, as the US was very exposed in that instance.
- Thread Author
- #630
Quite a few years back a mate of mine, who has been a prominent journo in this state, after being an NPL head coach, contacted me to suggest looking at some domestic Brazilian club football on show. It was simply fabulous! There was so much flair in the games.
It was very disappointing to see the Brazil who played Morocco showcase virtually none of the past Jogo Bonito.
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won't change unless the best brazillians can play in brazil and not have their flair coached out of them.
Hopefully the club world cup makes a difference
- Thread Author
- #632
I've read that some stakeholders in Brazil are concerned that when Brazilians go to European clubs, they become too Europeanised as players.
I know a few posters think I've been guilty of imparting 'robot like' playing practices to players I've coached, but nothing could be further from the truth. I've studied a lot of the dribbling and shooting techniques in Brazilian Soccer Schools, and the ones I can do, albeit slowly in a few cases, and a few not at all, like the fantastic Elasticos, I have imparted to players - Brazilian rolls, Brazilian inside stepovers, Brazilian outside stepovers, 45 degree drags, sole of the foot, Ronaldo chops, and combinations of these techniques together to make a sequence.
These days I see a lot of Japanese videos where they've developed a few Brazilian style techniques of their own, but don't often see Japanese players do them in games for the national teams or in the ACL.
Pleasingly, I'm seeing younger Aus players do a few of these techniques in match conditions in the AL - Younis, Luke Vickery, Sicluna, Jelacic, another young Melb City player ? and the older Arzani.
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I imagine its very hard to foster creativity as a teacher, if it wasn't every country would produce jogo bonito style players. We face similar questions in academia - it feels like mathematical and physics instructions improves their technical basis but any instruction at all threatens to stifle a students creativity which is an impossible dilemma. But what fosters creativity is people obsessing and experimenting at home, often taking many wrong turns along the way playing with math
incidentally, our players seem to have more flair before they go to europe and have their flair coached out of them. Irankunda, Arzani and Rogic have all had this, though rogic and irankunda seem to have improved overseas. Segecic is a rare one that seems to have been encouraged to keep his flair at pompey, shame he defected
As long as Europe dominates club football, all players will be squished into a limited set of profiles and playing styles designed to win european domestic competitions. Little we can do about that unless Australia becomes a super power at club football
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First half against Paraguay.
I liked off the kick off we won two headers.
2:32: Good press and O'Neill intercepts on halfway. Runs forward in so much space and just can't thread anyone through. Ball to Volpato with a wasteful spin. Volpato totally stuffs that there. Too busy being fancy with his turn and not even touching the ball. Touch the ball and back into the man. Free kick on the dome. Robertson is needed here.
Ensuing clearance just headed his and forward by Irvine. Chest down and right to a free Bos would've been better.
3:13: The first of many ranging runs by Circati. Bos to Volpato who smartly rounds his man and feeds Irvine. First time shot saved. Volpato corner doesn't beat the first man. A
5:40 Bos beaten and stupid shirt pull. Beach gathers the free kick and kick and a great throw down to Irankunda who is eventually cornered and Australia go back.
10:09: Great long ball by Circati and Volpato excellently keeps it in to Irvine who feeds Volpato to best the first man in the box but stumble in the second duel.
Paraguay with a lot of bastard play already. Go down at any light touch but hurl into our players.
14:38: Irvine in space and feeds Irankunda who wins a free. Lots of good link ups on the right and winning of 50/50 duels. Herrington stamping authority already. Next Paraguayan bitch goes down after running into a clear Herrington header. Irankunda called by Popovic for instruction. Caceres with one early foul and be kept doing it without a card.
18:30 Bos with a great wing run. Crosses on floor and there's room and Paraguay need to clear. A real striker would've hassled noted. O'Neill runs a tackle soon after and can win a corner.
26:36 Australia won the ball and Metcalfe is fed and cops the boot in the face.
Next minutes with a lot of intense tackling from both teams.
34:18: Bos again down the wing. I get why those at the game enjoyed him so much. He was fed countless times and moved the ball.
35:13: Nice move in the right for Bos to shoot on his left.
36:10 Herrington with that beautiful flat pass to Metcalfe in space. Even the German commentator was amazed by that ball. Through 2 lines of Paraguay. We go right and a bit slow only to lose it on edge of box.
45:49: Smart first time pass by Irvine. Bos can run and Volpato gets a curved shot on target.
Half time. A clear plan and a lot of ball fed to the right players. We had a lot of territorial possession to keep Paraguay back.
I liked off the kick off we won two headers.
2:32: Good press and O'Neill intercepts on halfway. Runs forward in so much space and just can't thread anyone through. Ball to Volpato with a wasteful spin. Volpato totally stuffs that there. Too busy being fancy with his turn and not even touching the ball. Touch the ball and back into the man. Free kick on the dome. Robertson is needed here.
Ensuing clearance just headed his and forward by Irvine. Chest down and right to a free Bos would've been better.
3:13: The first of many ranging runs by Circati. Bos to Volpato who smartly rounds his man and feeds Irvine. First time shot saved. Volpato corner doesn't beat the first man. A
5:40 Bos beaten and stupid shirt pull. Beach gathers the free kick and kick and a great throw down to Irankunda who is eventually cornered and Australia go back.
10:09: Great long ball by Circati and Volpato excellently keeps it in to Irvine who feeds Volpato to best the first man in the box but stumble in the second duel.
Paraguay with a lot of bastard play already. Go down at any light touch but hurl into our players.
14:38: Irvine in space and feeds Irankunda who wins a free. Lots of good link ups on the right and winning of 50/50 duels. Herrington stamping authority already. Next Paraguayan bitch goes down after running into a clear Herrington header. Irankunda called by Popovic for instruction. Caceres with one early foul and be kept doing it without a card.
18:30 Bos with a great wing run. Crosses on floor and there's room and Paraguay need to clear. A real striker would've hassled noted. O'Neill runs a tackle soon after and can win a corner.
26:36 Australia won the ball and Metcalfe is fed and cops the boot in the face.
Next minutes with a lot of intense tackling from both teams.
34:18: Bos again down the wing. I get why those at the game enjoyed him so much. He was fed countless times and moved the ball.
35:13: Nice move in the right for Bos to shoot on his left.
36:10 Herrington with that beautiful flat pass to Metcalfe in space. Even the German commentator was amazed by that ball. Through 2 lines of Paraguay. We go right and a bit slow only to lose it on edge of box.
45:49: Smart first time pass by Irvine. Bos can run and Volpato gets a curved shot on target.
Half time. A clear plan and a lot of ball fed to the right players. We had a lot of territorial possession to keep Paraguay back.
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Second half against Paraguay
45:50: Silly foul by Irvine for a yellow.
47:30: First time yet casual clearance by Herrington falls to Paraguay and they shoot wide.
47:58: Irankunda does well to win the ball but flops on the box. So much hand and grabbing on Irankunda to be fair.
48:24: Bos eith intent and space and Volpato with a stupid casual flick attempt when a firm ball and turn would've created something. We had 3 across the front line as well in waiting.
49:10: Scrappy midfield play and Paraguay break. The shot at Beach caught. Irvine cautious due to yellow.
50:45: Irvine whips in a cross and it goes behind everyone. Behich way up too on far list. Paraguay defender stumbled trying to get to it. Toure would've somehow taken the ball.
52:18: Paraguay with the most wayward forward ball and I think he was passing to a bench player sprinting down the line. Confusing.
Australia lose it right after the free kick in a dangerous area.
53:03: Behich nudges it to Beach. To be fair I don't think Beach gets to it before Enciso. Dodgy moment.
54:13: Love this play. We get it 20 out and go wide and get down the other end for a throw. The peeling by Bos just creates space.
58min: Hrustic on for Volpato.
58:45: Bos heads in behind for Irankunda who blasts it across goal. Hrustic could've signalled far post and tap it while O'Neill was in miles of space for a cut back. Not enough awareness there.
59:45: Great pause and turn by Metcalfe. Irankunda 35 metre shot blocked. Passing across would've been much better.
Next minutes saw a lot of tight harassing by Australia to win the ball then lots of passing on the right.
Australia quite versatile with Hrustic jogging up the side with Bos and linking well and also getting central as an outlet.
74:12 Irankunda wastefully holding the ball instead of passing it along.
77:13: O'Neil has it and jogs forward. If that had been Metcalfe his left boot puts Hrustic through on goal.
81:59: Bos through and cuts back for a weak shot to keeper.
88:59 Bos breaks through and shoots across and wide. Outside boot to Hrustic and Devlin would've been very interesting.
92:15: Scary moment as Paraguay get a shot away. Weak but moments from heartbreak.
Bos goes for another long run for late in the game and wins the foul.
On the rewatch we put in a shift and followed a plan. Paraguay did too and you could see it offset the other and this is the result you get. Australia with the dicht territorial tactics to pin them back.
45:50: Silly foul by Irvine for a yellow.
47:30: First time yet casual clearance by Herrington falls to Paraguay and they shoot wide.
47:58: Irankunda does well to win the ball but flops on the box. So much hand and grabbing on Irankunda to be fair.
48:24: Bos eith intent and space and Volpato with a stupid casual flick attempt when a firm ball and turn would've created something. We had 3 across the front line as well in waiting.
49:10: Scrappy midfield play and Paraguay break. The shot at Beach caught. Irvine cautious due to yellow.
50:45: Irvine whips in a cross and it goes behind everyone. Behich way up too on far list. Paraguay defender stumbled trying to get to it. Toure would've somehow taken the ball.
52:18: Paraguay with the most wayward forward ball and I think he was passing to a bench player sprinting down the line. Confusing.
Australia lose it right after the free kick in a dangerous area.
53:03: Behich nudges it to Beach. To be fair I don't think Beach gets to it before Enciso. Dodgy moment.
54:13: Love this play. We get it 20 out and go wide and get down the other end for a throw. The peeling by Bos just creates space.
58min: Hrustic on for Volpato.
58:45: Bos heads in behind for Irankunda who blasts it across goal. Hrustic could've signalled far post and tap it while O'Neill was in miles of space for a cut back. Not enough awareness there.
59:45: Great pause and turn by Metcalfe. Irankunda 35 metre shot blocked. Passing across would've been much better.
Next minutes saw a lot of tight harassing by Australia to win the ball then lots of passing on the right.
Australia quite versatile with Hrustic jogging up the side with Bos and linking well and also getting central as an outlet.
74:12 Irankunda wastefully holding the ball instead of passing it along.
77:13: O'Neil has it and jogs forward. If that had been Metcalfe his left boot puts Hrustic through on goal.
81:59: Bos through and cuts back for a weak shot to keeper.
88:59 Bos breaks through and shoots across and wide. Outside boot to Hrustic and Devlin would've been very interesting.
92:15: Scary moment as Paraguay get a shot away. Weak but moments from heartbreak.
Bos goes for another long run for late in the game and wins the foul.
On the rewatch we put in a shift and followed a plan. Paraguay did too and you could see it offset the other and this is the result you get. Australia with the dicht territorial tactics to pin them back.
- Thread Author
- #636
I had never thought of the third and fourth paragraphs, G?
You may have made a very good point!
- Thread Author
- #637
Great work again, JS.
Looked at a replay last night. I thought Paraguay is a tactically astute, battle hardened team. Their organisation was very good. Their defensive shape was always compact.
With some good work from the right flank, Iran, Met and Behich were often 2-5 metres short of where they needed to me to make better effect of the crosses.
- Thread Author
- #638
If they aren't appreciated overseas, I'd love Tilio and Arzani to stay in the AL.
They are entertainers.
Watching Arzani in the AL and ACL is like watching the past Brazilians. Thankfully, Venetius (?) Junior at Left Wing for Brazil, uses a fair bit of Brazilian trickery in this WC.
Punchanello
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The game is dominated by pace and power. If you look at pretty much all the big European teams at the WC, they primarily rely on movement off the ball and running power and directness to unlock defences. They have flair players of course, but that attribute is not the main route to goals and they are there because they are also invariably machines. That's why many of those sides are struggling against the low-block.
For me, the most exciting teams have been those who mix it up. Marry power and off the ball running with moments of ball to foot playmaking.
- Thread Author
- #640
One thing our Aus TV analysts have not paid enough attention to, is how the opposotion has forced Aus to play a certain way. Our opponents, Turkey, USA and Paraguay have dictated how Aus plays. They have focused too much on Aus playing - as though the tactics of the opposition have had no impact.
Harry Kewell appears to be a better former player than coach, in terms of analysis. Milligan is more analytical, more observant and will probably go further as a coach.
Consider this:
* Against Turkey they committed a lot of players forwards, often 8-9 players into the Aus half to Gegenpress, or Full Press and intensively Squeeze. Aus was often trying to play out from the back, with very well co-ordinated Full Pressing and Squeezing from Turkey.
However, Turkey got caught out just a few times, by ceding space in between the midfield line and defensive line, or in between their defensive line and keeper. This lost them the game.
* Against the USA, the Americans also did the same as Turkey, but better. There were often 8-9 US players in the Aus defensive half, again, trying to disturb our build ups from the back. The difference was the USA, were more aware of Aus's occasional accelerated attacks, had a more aware defensive line, and left slightly smaller holes in between lines.
Credit to the USA in the 90 mins against Paraguay and first 45 mins against Aus. They displayed how to blow strong, compact, organised defences off the park.
In these 2 games, Aus players often had far less time and space on the ball. I don't think the former Roos, now pundits, paid enough attention to this.
* Paraguay, only occasionally Full Pressed and Squeezed intensively in the Aus defensive half. They did at times on both flanks force Aus to defend deep with Roos having body shape facing backwards - BUT - after a few seconds, Paraguay quickly regained their defensive shape - like Popa's Roos. Their primary focus was having a deep defence, playing 5 at the back, because of the extreme pace and ball carrying ability of Irank, Bos and Toure in previous games.
Consequently, Aus players had more time on the ball in midfield, because Para didn't want to risk their defensive shape with the ball being anything less than compact, and deep, by playing a far deeper defensive line. Roos received a lot more ball with body position facing forwards against Paraguay. Para in turn implemented Half Presses and Partial Presses, with only moderate Squeezing intensity, most of the time.
This wasn't a game of action, which Sunderland Bear, and others, desperately want to see in football. It was a tense, tactical battle.
At the same time, I can' t see teams like Aus or Paraguay going a long way in the WC, as they lack the ability to dominate, through lack of the innate skill needed to win WCs.
Both have a lot more mental strength than the fragile Dutch though. For all the Dutch's technique and tactical nous, Dutch body language was poor in the extra time against Morocco. Heads dropped.
Dutch coaches have liked coaching Aus players, who have vast mental strength, commitment to the team cause and unity of purpose compared to the Dutch - often their weakness.
Harry Kewell appears to be a better former player than coach, in terms of analysis. Milligan is more analytical, more observant and will probably go further as a coach.
Consider this:
* Against Turkey they committed a lot of players forwards, often 8-9 players into the Aus half to Gegenpress, or Full Press and intensively Squeeze. Aus was often trying to play out from the back, with very well co-ordinated Full Pressing and Squeezing from Turkey.
However, Turkey got caught out just a few times, by ceding space in between the midfield line and defensive line, or in between their defensive line and keeper. This lost them the game.
* Against the USA, the Americans also did the same as Turkey, but better. There were often 8-9 US players in the Aus defensive half, again, trying to disturb our build ups from the back. The difference was the USA, were more aware of Aus's occasional accelerated attacks, had a more aware defensive line, and left slightly smaller holes in between lines.
Credit to the USA in the 90 mins against Paraguay and first 45 mins against Aus. They displayed how to blow strong, compact, organised defences off the park.
In these 2 games, Aus players often had far less time and space on the ball. I don't think the former Roos, now pundits, paid enough attention to this.
* Paraguay, only occasionally Full Pressed and Squeezed intensively in the Aus defensive half. They did at times on both flanks force Aus to defend deep with Roos having body shape facing backwards - BUT - after a few seconds, Paraguay quickly regained their defensive shape - like Popa's Roos. Their primary focus was having a deep defence, playing 5 at the back, because of the extreme pace and ball carrying ability of Irank, Bos and Toure in previous games.
Consequently, Aus players had more time on the ball in midfield, because Para didn't want to risk their defensive shape with the ball being anything less than compact, and deep, by playing a far deeper defensive line. Roos received a lot more ball with body position facing forwards against Paraguay. Para in turn implemented Half Presses and Partial Presses, with only moderate Squeezing intensity, most of the time.
This wasn't a game of action, which Sunderland Bear, and others, desperately want to see in football. It was a tense, tactical battle.
At the same time, I can' t see teams like Aus or Paraguay going a long way in the WC, as they lack the ability to dominate, through lack of the innate skill needed to win WCs.
Both have a lot more mental strength than the fragile Dutch though. For all the Dutch's technique and tactical nous, Dutch body language was poor in the extra time against Morocco. Heads dropped.
Dutch coaches have liked coaching Aus players, who have vast mental strength, commitment to the team cause and unity of purpose compared to the Dutch - often their weakness.