Australian news and politics.

HonestSpursFan · 2026-06-18T23:01:29+1000

Toebash said:
Mate what are you on about? Who is not allowing you to be proud of your country and sing the anthem loudly?

It’s not illegal obviously but people get upset at the mere site of the Aussie flag these days. Some people genuinely associate having an Aussie flag at your house with being racist and fascist, but don’t say the same about other identity flags (Indigenous, LGBTQI, other countries). Some people don’t even sing the anthem, some politicians don’t even stand with the Aussie flag.

JS96 · 2026-06-18T23:59:54+1000

HonestSpursFan said:
It’s not illegal obviously but people get upset at the mere site of the Aussie flag these days. Some people genuinely associate having an Aussie flag at your house with being racist and fascist, but don’t say the same about other identity flags (Indigenous, LGBTQI, other countries). Some people don’t even sing the anthem, some politicians don’t even stand with the Aussie flag.

A German cultural centre banned German flags during the world cup as they say it symbolises division and marginalisation.

Try telling someone from Turkey, Colombia or Croatia their flag can't be shown.

The same shit in the UK where the British or English flag makes migrants feel uncomfortable or unwelcome. They can leave if that's the case. If a country's flag in its own country makes you uncomfortable then you shouldn't be there.

Notice how at the world cup everyone is enjoying themselves with flags everywhere? It's the sad fools on the sidelines trying to remain relevant who are the issue.

JS96 · 2026-06-19T03:27:12+1000

HonestSpursFan said:
It’s not illegal obviously but people get upset at the mere site of the Aussie flag these days. Some people genuinely associate having an Aussie flag at your house with being racist and fascist, but don’t say the same about other identity flags (Indigenous, LGBTQI, other countries). Some people don’t even sing the anthem, some politicians don’t even stand with the Aussie flag.

Council staff warned not to display Scotland flags during World Cup

Midlothian Council said workplaces 'need to remain inclusive and welcoming for everyone'

news.stv.tv

Utter nonsense.

erogenouszone · 2026-06-19T07:42:11+1000

Ground zero for interest rates, the availability of trillions in cheap credit & the subsequent monetisation of properties on an industrial level started with Alan Greenspan of the US Federal Reserve. DYOR.

LFC · 2026-06-19T08:31:03+1000

JS96 said:
A German cultural centre banned German flags during the world cup as they say it symbolises division and marginalisation.

Try telling someone from Turkey, Colombia or Croatia their flag can't be shown.

The same shit in the UK where the British or English flag makes migrants feel uncomfortable or unwelcome. They can leave if that's the case. If a country's flag in its own country makes you uncomfortable then you shouldn't be there.

Notice how at the world cup everyone is enjoying themselves with flags everywhere? It's the sad fools on the sidelines trying to remain relevant who are the issue.

its come to the point when your enjoying yourself your guilty some others are not.
You have to be wary what you consider to say/scream in joy in case someone else is offended.

kiro kompiro · 2026-06-19T08:36:24+1000

Toebash said:
Some voices to the debate are certainly at least partly rooted in racism. Pointing that out isn't "shutting down" debate, it's adding a perspective to the debate. We need robust conversations in a democracy.

I agree that immigration is part of the cause of the housing crisis, but it isn't the biggest one. Bureaucratic red tape, inflation (in particular in building material costs) and tax incentives for investors (that Labor now proposes to remove) are all important factors. I'll observe that house prices continued increasing during 2021 despite immigration being at its lowest levels in generations (in fact I think it was negative). If immigration was really a large factor in housing prices you would have expected them to drop significantly during that period.

I'd rather we sorted the three issues I identified above rather than immigration to sort the housing crisis because:

1. they're all more important factors;
2. cutting down significantly on immigration is going to really fuck our economy and our ability to provide for an aging population going forwards; and
3. a bigger Australia is more influential on a global scale, and I think that's important for our national security.

I don't think anyone is scratching their heads about why Pauline is preferred Prime Minister in public opinion polling at the moment. She has correctly identified a lot of people's current concerns. What I am personally scratching my head at is how to communicate to people precisely why Pauline has no solutions to their problems and why she will in fact likely make them much worse.

Also, I don't think the "mass immigration" happening in the UK has any real relevance to Australia. I live in London; the UK is a completely different country with different issues. Also, the UK has roughly half the foreign born population of Australia, so if immigration is really that much of an issue in the UK, it should be twice as bad at home (but we all know that's not the case).

Also, around that time in 2021 there were many ex-pats returning- cashed-up- increasing demand and property prices, especially for homes that could have a "home office" to work from home. So its not fair to say that prices went up even though immigration went down as there were others increasing demand.

Population increased by 412,000 in 2025, of which 300,000 were immigrants.

Its interesting now that the tide of public opinion is turning against mass migration, the media no longer uses the words "strong immigration" to describe it.

Sharkman84 · 2026-06-19T09:08:27+1000

HonestSpursFan said:
It’s not illegal obviously but people get upset at the mere site of the Aussie flag these days. Some people genuinely associate having an Aussie flag at your house with being racist and fascist, but don’t say the same about other identity flags (Indigenous, LGBTQI, other countries). Some people don’t even sing the anthem, some politicians don’t even stand with the Aussie flag.

That's the Left in a nutshell, it's not just us but in every Anglosphere country.

Monoethnic Social Club · 2026-06-19T09:34:41+1000

JS96 said:
A German cultural centre banned German flags during the world cup as they say it symbolises division and marginalisation.

Try telling someone from Turkey, Colombia or Croatia their flag can't be shown.

The same shit in the UK where the British or English flag makes migrants feel uncomfortable or unwelcome. They can leave if that's the case. If a country's flag in its own country makes you uncomfortable then you shouldn't be there.

Notice how at the world cup everyone is enjoying themselves with flags everywhere? It's the sad fools on the sidelines trying to remain relevant who are the issue.

Football Australia says "hi"

Toebash · 2026-06-19T11:27:18+1000

kiro kompiro said:
I agree housing affordability is a multi-factorial problem.

BUT

Immigration is a very important driver of the demand side for housing. The projections was that Australia would reach 28 million in 2051. It happened in 2026. Most of it by immigration.

That's important because the sharp increase in population was not taken into account in government policies around land release, infrastructure eg schools, roads, health and ageing support. The projection was we wouldn't need to that until 2051.

The other major factor is the monetary policy.

Former RBA chief Phillip Lowe should go down in history the most incompetent ever. He held rates far too low for too long at a time when the government was throwing money at everyone and everything.

He then reacted too late and went too hard when he finally saw what he had done, lighting a bonfire under inflation which was obvious to a first year economics student but not him, ScoMO and Albo. His and the government's monetary policies are not only a major driver of house prices, but also inflation, and reduced private sector jobs growth and productivity.

The CGT concessions and NG are relatively minor in the scheme of it all, IMO, maybe 5% if that. That's just politics of envy and division that modern Labor relies on to win elections.

Which projections are you talking about? They must be decades old and, if that's right, I don't understand why those would be relevant ato the discussion at hand all.

Population increase hasn't been "sharp". In fact, it's been remarkably consistent and has hovered between 1% and 2% for more than 50 years (the ABS data is here and here). Obviously there was a dip during COVID and then subsequent spike, but it more or less evens out.

The real divergence between incomes and housing prices was Howard's negative gearing and CGT reforms. I'm sure you've seen the graphs but happy to dig them out if you like. Labor has obviously now decided to remove those tax concessions and pretty much every analyst agrees that house prices will drop accordingly (they already are, though inflation from the closure of the Straits of Hormuz is a significant confounding factor). For that reason, I completely disagree that "CGT concessions and NG are relatively minor"; they're probably the most significant factor in the wild discrepancy between wage and house prices. Referring to those changes as "the politics of envy and division that modern Labor relies on to win elections" makes absolutely no sense whatsoever; if you recall 2019 Labor lost that election because of proposals to change CGT and NG. They've now burnt significant political capital making those changes now. It seems to me Labor is just doing what they think is right for the Australian populace, and I agree with them.

I agree with your criticism of Phillip Lowe, rates should certainly have been raised earlier. I don't necessarily disagree with your criticism of government monetary policy as well (by which I take you mean government spending?), but to be fair to ScoMo (and I rarely am), he was dealing with a once-in-a-lifetime economic shock, and then Albanese has had to deal with two energy shocks which are always going to be inflationary.

Toebash · 2026-06-19T11:30:14+1000

kiro kompiro said:
Also, around that time in 2021 there were many ex-pats returning- cashed-up- increasing demand and property prices, especially for homes that could have a "home office" to work from home. So its not fair to say that prices went up even though immigration went down as there were others increasing demand.

Were there? Have you got anything to support that assertion?

kiro kompiro · 2026-06-19T11:59:38+1000

Toebash said:
Were there? Have you got anything to support that assertion?

Yeah sure. The claim that house prices still went up during covid when immigration dropped therefore immigration doesn't drive house prices was debunked long ago. Its simply not true.

During the peak of the COVID-19 pandemic, an estimated 350,000 Australian citizens and permanent residents returned home from overseas. This massive "brain gain" saw nearly half of the estimated one million Australians living abroad return by 2022, though an estimated one-third of these returnees intended to move back overseas once conditions normalized. [1, 2]
Key Expat Return Statistics:

Total Returnees: Approximately 350,000 to 400,000 Australian expats returned home seeking safe haven during the peak of global pandemic lockdowns. [1]
Census Data: In the 2021 Australian Census, 85,812 citizens explicitly reported living overseas just 12 months prior to the count. [1]
Primary Drivers: The primary motivations for returning included safety from the pandemic, geopolitical instability in key expat hubs (such as Hong Kong), and border uncertainties. [1]

Would you give up a 'once in a lifetime' opportunity because of coronavirus?

Even as the pandemic rips across the globe, not every Australian overseas is desperate to come home, to a relative safe haven.

www.abc.net.au

https://runway.airforce.gov.au/resources/link-article/brain-gain-half-australian-expats-are-back-home-and-they-ve-brought-their

kiro kompiro · 2026-06-19T13:03:56+1000

Toebash said:
Which projections are you talking about? They must be decades old and, if that's right, I don't understand why those would be relevant ato the discussion at hand all.

Government releases projections to plan in advance for what it needs to do for the coming decades, not of 3 or 4 years ahead, but decades, because the things that it needs to do take time and lots of money. When the projection is wrong by 25 years, obviously there are going to be issues.

Toebash said:
Population increase hasn't been "sharp". In fact, it's been remarkably consistent and has hovered between 1% and 2% for more than 50 years (the ABS data is here and here). Obviously there was a dip during COVID and then subsequent spike, but it more or less evens out.

Percentage are a misleading statistic. Historically we had 70,000 immigrants annually.

Then Howard opened the flood gates to increase that by 3 or 4 times and Labor hit half a million. These are the populations of cities the size of Geelong and Canberra, added every year. That's the reality of it.

Toebash said:
The real divergence between incomes and housing prices was Howard's negative gearing and CGT reforms. I'm sure you've seen the graphs but happy to dig them out if you like. Labor has obviously now decided to remove those tax concessions and pretty much every analyst agrees that house prices will drop accordingly (they already are, though inflation from the closure of the Straits of Hormuz is a significant confounding factor)

That's a correlation and would be valid if they were the only variables at the time. They weren't. Historical low interest rates plus huge population growth, and government over-spending all conspired raise house prices and inflation.

Toebash said:
. For that reason, I completely disagree that "CGT concessions and NG are relatively minor"; they're probably the most significant factor in the wild discrepancy between wage and house prices.

Its on average about $20k price reduction in median hosue prices. Its virtually nothing:

"The reduction in investor demand is expected to lead to a small and temporary slowing in house price growth, estimated to see prices grow by around 2 per cent less over a couple of years relative to no tax policy change," the government estimates.

That tallies with estimates from the Grattan Institute and a range of other economists, who have predicted a drop in home prices of 1-4 per cent compared to where they would have been without these changes.

Will property tax changes make housing cheaper for first home buyers?

There's no doubt that taking away negative gearing on existing properties will reduce the amount many investors can afford to pay, evening up the playing field for owner-occupiers. But these tax changes by themselves aren't a cure all.

www.abc.net.au

Toebash said:
Referring to those changes as "the politics of envy and division that modern Labor relies on to win elections" makes absolutely no sense whatsoever ; if you recall 2019 Labor lost that election because of proposals to change CGT and NG. They've now burnt significant political capital making those changes now. It seems to me Labor is just doing what they think is right for the Australian populace, and I agree with them.

That's right, but Shorten didn't frame it as "Intergenerational Fairness" ie pitting young against old. This time Labor calcuated that by framing the CGT and NG as necessary for "Intergenerational Fairness" it could cement its position in government. Labor miscalculated hence yesterdays backflips in the policy.

Toebash said:
I agree with your criticism of Phillip Lowe, rates should certainly have been raised earlier. I don't necessarily disagree with your criticism of government monetary policy as well (by which I take you mean government spending?), but to be fair to ScoMo (and I rarely am), he was dealing with a once-in-a-lifetime economic shock, and then Albanese has had to deal with two energy shocks which are always going to be inflationary.

It wasn't a once in a lifetime economic shock. The GFC in 2007 was the template that was used for the government spending decisions during COVID. But they massively over-cooked it-the financial support given to individuals and businesses-particuarly construction was far more than needed. As a result there is a massive budget black hole, high inflation and Labor is raising taxes. Make no mistake the CGT and NG changes are about revenue raising, nothing more.

zimbos05 · 2026-06-19T18:31:30+1000

kiro kompiro said:
Government releases projections to plan in advance for what it needs to do for the coming decades, not of 3 or 4 years ahead, but decades, because the things that it needs to do take time and lots of money. When the projection is wrong by 25 years, obviously there are going to be issues.

You realise that immigration numbers have dropped under Labor? With that being said, we have had different governments at different times. That projection I'm guessing is from years, possibly decades ago. So somewhere along the line, some of the different governments increased migration numbers as demand for labour, skills, and population grew. Blaming a current government for a projection made by previous administrations is a bit unfair

LFC · 2026-06-19T18:48:31+1000

2024–25 306,000
2023–24 446,000
2022–23 536,000
2021–22 171,000
2020–21 85,000 (net loss due to COVID-19 border closures)
2019–20 194,000
2018–19 241,000
2017–18 240,000
2016–17 243,000
2015–16 179,000

IF this look up is accurate mind you.
The official Australian Bureau of Statistics financial year data outlines the annual net overseas migration for the last decade.
Albo came in May '22.

kiro kompiro · 2026-06-19T18:58:16+1000

zimbos05 said:
You realise that immigration numbers have dropped under Labor? With that being said, we have had different governments at different times. That projection I'm guessing is from years, possibly decades ago. So somewhere along the line, some of the different governments increased migration numbers as demand for labour, skills, and population grew. Blaming a current government for a projection made by previous administrations is a bit unfair

I've read that Labor and the Coalition had an unwritten agreement not to make a political issue of immigration numbers so both are culpable.

Its only in the last 12 months that immigration has come down to the level that it was pre-Covid under the Coalition. Every other year since winning government, Labor has equaled or exceeded that.

The demand for labour and skills is artificial. Bring more people in, you need more jobs filled to serve them. Its not real economic growth because its simply the result of increased immigration. Further, most of the jobs growth is in government jobs.

That is what props up GDP figures.

But GDP PER CAPITA has gone backwards. The pie is bigger but we're each getting smaller piece.

Public opinion and the political landscape has changed towards mass immigration. Labor has to reduce immigration or else they're dead and buried at the next election.

Alex M · 2026-06-19T19:10:31+1000

kiro kompiro said:
I've read that Labor and the Coalition had an unwritten agreement not to make a political issue of immigration numbers so both are culpable.

If they have such an agreement I think it's been followed more in the breach than the observance. It's been an issue between them more often than not. Despite the rhetoric though it's pretty true that migration policies themselves don't change much when the Governments change.

zimbos05 · 2026-06-19T19:31:54+1000

kiro kompiro said:
I've read that Labor and the Coalition had an unwritten agreement not to make a political issue of immigration numbers so both are culpable.

Its only in the last 12 months that immigration has come down to the level that it was pre-Covid under the Coalition. Every other year since winning government, Labor has equaled or exceeded that.

Immigration in 2022 under Morrison was 528k. In the 1st year since taking power, Albanese dropped it to 429k, then 306k, then 301k.

So Labor didn't only decrease in the last 12 months.

Migrant departures have however increased 13% from 232 to 263k.

Migration is just a very convenient (yet poor) excuse for the woes caused by capitalistic greed

kiro kompiro · 2026-06-19T19:43:28+1000

zimbos05 said:
Immigration in 2022 under Morrison was 528k. In the 1st year since taking power, Albanese dropped it to 429k, then 306k, then 301k.

So Labor didn't only decrease in the last 12 months.

Migrant departures have however increased 13% from 232 to 263k.

Migration is just a very convenient (yet poor) excuse for the woes caused by capitalistic greed

From: https://www.abs.gov.au/statistics/people/population/overseas-migration/latest-release

In the year ending 30 June 2025, overseas migration contributed a net gain of 306,000 people to Australia's population. This was a decrease from the net gain of 429,000 people the previous year, and below the financial year record of 538,000 people in 2022-23

Albanese became PM on May 23 2022. ie before the period when the 538k came in. That record is Albanese's. He owns it.

.

zimbos05 · 2026-06-19T20:05:31+1000

kiro kompiro said:
From: https://www.abs.gov.au/statistics/people/population/overseas-migration/latest-release

In the year ending 30 June 2025, overseas migration contributed a net gain of 306,000 people to Australia's population. This was a decrease from the net gain of 429,000 people the previous year, and below the financial year record of 538,000 people in 2022-23

Albanese became PM on May 23 2022. ie before the period when the 538k came in. That record is Albanese's. He owns it.
.

He got elected in 2022. He inherits all policies from the previous government in that immediate time after election. He implemented reductions immediately after.

You said he has only done it now, but even by your own figures he had done it almost straight away. So migration reduction has been a consistent Labor policy from day 1. Again, the idea that migration is responsible is debunked by the fact that migration has been reducing year on year since he took office.

I'm no Labor supporter, but if we can't have genuine conversation - particularly when facts prove all the claim by PHON as false - about the actual issues in this country, then we will never fix the issues. Migration is not the cause for all of our issues. It's not even the cause for our smallest issues.

kiro kompiro · 2026-06-19T20:51:29+1000

zimbos05 said:
He got elected in 2022. He inherits all policies from the previous government in that immediate time after election. He implemented reductions immediately after.

You said he has only done it now, but even by your own figures he had done it almost straight away. So migration reduction has been a consistent Labor policy from day 1. Again, the idea that migration is responsible is debunked by the fact that migration has been reducing year on year since he took office.

I'm no Labor supporter, but if we can't have genuine conversation - particularly when facts prove all the claim by PHON as false - about the actual issues in this country, then we will never fix the issues. Migration is not the cause for all of our issues. It's not even the cause for our smallest issues.

If you look at the above ABS graph (and LFC's numbers), they have always been less under the Coalition going back to 2015. It peaked at 277k, declined to 240k just before COVID hit.

Under Albanese NOM has gone from the record high 528k to 306k but still above the Coalition peak.

Housing affordability is a big issue. Population growth is not the only cause of housing unaffordability but is a big driver of housing demand. It *has* to be, because people have to live somewhere. With rising demand, prices go up.

To say otherwise is like blaming a 4 litre bucket for overflowing with 8 litres of water rather than turning the tap off.

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