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Best overseas leagues for Aussies?

Decentric said:
If I evaluate improved skill set, then Devlin and Miller have improved from playing in Scotland in recent times.

Rowles may have done too. Ditto Baccus.

Rogic did too, but not as much as expected. Mooy also improved.

Players might get a bigger bank balance from Scotland, but in terms of Socceroo selection our players in Eredivisie, MLS and Champ, are a lot better off.
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I've spoken to Lawrie McKinna at length about this. He would have better insight than most re the relative merits of the SPFL and the AL.

His view is that the conditions of both countries are too different to properly rate the leagues... Scottish teams who come here for friendlies just about always lose on our hard hot pitches. But if an Australian team went to Scotland to play a friendly they would struggle.

If a fair time and place could be found to play all AL teams against all SPFL teams then LM believes the AL boys would win most of the matches as the range of quality is much greater in Scotland than it is in Oz.

In summary, the SPFL (according to LM) is comparable (if not inferior) to the AL - especially once you remove Celtic and Rangers from the equation. But what makes the SPFL attractive to Australians (and it's only second tier Australians who go there) is the chance to play in a football obsessed culture, make slightly more money and put themselves in the Euro shop window.

What makes the football different is the cold weather and soft pitches (as opposed to the baking sun and hard pitches of the summer AL). Scottish football, in the cold, is far faster than AL football so decisions have to be made quicker and skills must be developed in order to cope).
 
ClockworkOrange said:
The league doesn’t matter as match as the game time. In the last ten years too many talented players have gone to teams that have farmed them out to reserve teams or lower teams, or else they’ve come back after 4 years with fewer than 50 games under their belts.
From a financial perspective they earned a couple of million to sit on their arse. From a career perspective, they’ve lost 4 years.
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First thing they need to consider is the financials. If they have an offer way above all the others, they take it. With such a small window, they should always take the money that is on the table, not future potential money. They are one injury away from retirement.

After the financial aspect, the game time is the important thing. This comes down to the culture of the club. As you say there are clubs that just hoard talent for a rainy day. I was thinking you ideally want the team paying a reasonable fee so there is an obvious investment in the player. The free transfers seem to present more risk.
 
Mr Cleansheets said:
I've spoken to Lawrie McKinna at length about this. He would have better insight than most re the relative merits of the SPFL and the AL.

His view is that the conditions of both countries are too different to properly rate the leagues... Scottish teams who come here for friendlies just about always lose on our hard hot pitches. But if an Australian team went to Scotland to play a friendly they would struggle.

If a fair time and place could be found to play all AL teams against all SPFL teams then LM believes the AL boys would win most of the matches as the range of quality is much greater in Scotland than it is in Oz.

In summary, the SPFL (according to LM) is comparable (if not inferior) to the AL - especially once you remove Celtic and Rangers from the equation. But what makes the SPFL attractive to Australians (and it's only second tier Australians who go there) is the chance to play in a football obsessed culture, make slightly more money and put themselves in the Euro shop window.

What makes the football different is the cold weather and soft pitches (as opposed to the baking sun and hard pitches of the summer AL). Scottish football, in the cold, is far faster than AL football so decisions have to be made quicker and skills must be developed in order to cope).
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Just the one point, if the SPFL is indeed inferior, why do so many Aussies fail over there. I am struggling to remember a Scot that has failed in any of Australia's national leagues.
 
Cunningstunt said:
First thing they need to consider is the financials. If they have an offer way above all the others, they take it. With such a small window, they should always take the money that is on the table, not future potential money. They are one injury away from retirement.

After the financial aspect, the game time is the important thing. This comes down to the culture of the club. As you say there are clubs that just hoard talent for a rainy day. I was thinking you ideally want the team paying a reasonable fee so there is an obvious investment in the player. The free transfers seem to present more risk.
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I’d like to see contracts where they can escape if not given sufficient game time at the agreed level.
 
ClockworkOrange said:
Or they have been lied to about what the club had planned for them? If they are shite, why would the club keep them on the books?
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Contracts in most other countries are enforceable. You can't just keep stamping your feet and demand away mid contract, unless you are upper level.
 
Maybe saying shyte is harsh - maybe not showing they can’t lift under harsher conditions - amongst many other reasons, main thing not displacing who’s got your fav position.
I think LW is looking at it quite protective of our locals. Soft imo.
For all the differences quoted why some earlier adaptors who had done dam well from here and with hardly any cushy support of today let alone last 10yrs or so.
Dukes and Moore later McDonald.
Did they cut the grade in far worse conditions.
You bet they did.
Later times Rogic Mooy even Irvine.
 
LFC said:
Maybe saying shyte is harsh - maybe not showing they can’t lift under harsher conditions - amongst many other reasons, main thing not displacing who’s got your fav position.
I think LW is looking at it quite protective of our locals. Soft imo.
For all the differences quoted why some earlier adaptors who had done dam well from here and with hardly any cushy support of today let alone last 10yrs or so.
Dukes and Moore later McDonald.
Did they cut the grade in far worse conditions.
You bet they did.
Later times Rogic Mooy even Irvine.
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And the modern-day pioneer, Craig Johnston, who managed to make it really big, in quite harder times.
 
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Too many excuses Sutho and they get upset about the facts.
If your good enough your selected plain and simple - even if playing on cold concrete you either cut it or left on contract till further notice.
 
Sutherlandbear said:
Just the one point, if the SPFL is indeed inferior, why do so many Aussies fail over there. I am struggling to remember a Scot that has failed in any of Australia's national leagues.
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For a start, it's mostly the second tier Aussies who go to Scotland. The first tier used to go (Viduka, Moore, Vidmar, McDonald, Rogic et al ... later Mooy but mostly for family reasons) but these days the money on offer is far better in other leagues so only those who aren't good enough straight away for those leagues go to the shop window of Scotland.

And you're right - many have failed. For some, they simply weren't good enough in the first place. Others weren't able to adapt to the faster pace of the SPFL and got constant soft tissue injuries due to their muscles being developed on the harder, faster pitches of Oz. Others wilted under the pressure of scrutiny and fan expectation that is everywhere in Scotland - every second of every day. Oz has nothing like that, in any sport.

The Hoff, for example, is a decent player by AL standards (not first tier). He went to Hearts and after a period of adjustment was starting to look the goods - plenty of Hearts fans referred to him as first man picked for a while - but then he had his first injury and has barely even trained since. There are a very large number of Hearts fans who now detest him for taking up part of their wage bill. He would have to know about that and it will make his eventual return problematic. There are plenty of others with decent talent who (possibly out of desperation for an OS adventure) picked the wrong clubs: eg Birighitti at DU and Nisbet at Ross County (where fans used to complain that none of their other players were on his wavelength and able to do the things he wanted them to - a ringmaster with toothless lions).

Coming the other way, Scots (including Lawrie) were usually established professionals used to a faster pace so the adjustment was a little easier, although there are any number of European players on record saying that the AL was a lot tougher than they expected and it took some time to adjust.

But to return to LM's main point - it's the vastly different conditions which mostly differentiate the leagues - and the impact of the salary cap. The gap between top and bottom is wide in Scotland but anyone can beat anyone in the AL.

Kind of a pointless argument in the end but people never tire of it (in both countries).
 
It’s not pointless Mr C.
We have players heading there for years so it’s worthy too discuss.
We all have differing opinions naturally and to maintain respect.

Your mention first tier.
Dukes for one came from semi pro before his Dinamo tenure.
Let’s get some balance And many of our first tier as you quote Al regulars have gone there long since.
Your luv of Nis - it no matter it was Ross county - barring adjusting to softer grounds with his skill set imo he should have been a stand out but alas not. I don’t buy the excuses.
Maybe not meant to be my friend whereas someone else could go there and stand out !
The pointless argument to me is excuses the way I see it And it’s proven where our countless OS players are making the grade.
I’m certainly rapt seeing our players as a NT group showing heaps of improvement together, look forward to some of them getting into higher leagues importantly fingers crossed.
 
Sutherlandbear said:
Contracts in most other countries are enforceable. You can't just keep stamping your feet and demand away mid contract, unless you are upper level.
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That is why I am saying that there should be something “in the enforceable contract” to stop them shovelling you off to the Bulgarian 3rd division to rot for 3 years.
 
ClockworkOrange said:
That is why I am saying that there should be something “in the enforceable contract” to stop them shovelling you off to the Bulgarian 3rd division to rot for 3 years.
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You know when your planted in your own half so long in a game - you got to play yourself out of trouble - you either sink instead of swimming.
 
LFC said:
It’s not pointless Mr C.
We have players heading there for years so it’s worthy too discuss.
We all have differing opinions naturally and to maintain respect.

Your mention first tier.
Dukes for one came from semi pro before his Dinamo tenure.
Let’s get some balance And many of our first tier as you quote Al regulars have gone there long since.
Your luv of Nis - it no matter it was Ross county - barring adjusting to softer grounds with his skill set imo he should have been a stand out but alas not. I don’t buy the excuses.
Maybe not meant to be my friend whereas someone else could go there and stand out !
The pointless argument to me is excuses the way I see it And it’s proven where our countless OS players are making the grade.
I’m certainly rapt seeing our players as a NT group showing heaps of improvement together, look forward to some of them getting into higher leagues importantly fingers crossed.
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Pointless in that there's no way to resolve or even properly engage in the debate when the key variables are so far apart.

As for Dukes, didn't matter where he came from... he was a first tier Oz player who went to Celtic at the top of his game.

Anyway, I take most of your points.
 
Mr Cleansheets said:
His view is that the conditions of both countries are too different to properly rate the leagues... Scottish teams who come here for friendlies just about always lose on our hard hot pitches.
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You raise an interesting point. What other countries would have comparable pitches? And comparable travel times?
 
Mr Cleansheets said:
I've spoken to Lawrie McKinna at length about this. He would have better insight than most re the relative merits of the SPFL and the AL.

His view is that the conditions of both countries are too different to properly rate the leagues... Scottish teams who come here for friendlies just about always lose on our hard hot pitches. But if an Australian team went to Scotland to play a friendly they would struggle.

If a fair time and place could be found to play all AL teams against all SPFL teams then LM believes the AL boys would win most of the matches as the range of quality is much greater in Scotland than it is in Oz.

In summary, the SPFL (according to LM) is comparable (if not inferior) to the AL - especially once you remove Celtic and Rangers from the equation. But what makes the SPFL attractive to Australians (and it's only second tier Australians who go there) is the chance to play in a football obsessed culture, make slightly more money and put themselves in the Euro shop window.

What makes the football different is the cold weather and soft pitches (as opposed to the baking sun and hard pitches of the summer AL). Scottish football, in the cold, is far faster than AL football so decisions have to be made quicker and skills must be developed in order to cope).
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I remember when the Syrians complained to FIFA about the length of the grass when they lost to the Socceroos. Might be onto something
 
I don't think Scottish Premier League suit our players, however I get it why players will go there because its a shop window for bigger clubs and bigger leagues.

I think over time the MLS will become a more tempting destination for our players given the transition from the MLS to the European leagues is smaller.
 
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