Quicky said:

There are also promising young right wing backs that have progressed past Atkinson including Bennie and Overy.

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You could be correct, Q.

The rapid progress in a short period of time by some young players is often astonishing - Okon Jr, Bozinovski, Herrington, Dobson, Clayton Taylor, Natta, Eli Adams, Younis recently.

Conversely, injuries and poor UEFA club transfer decisions can set players back 1-2 years at critical stages of development. Think Teague, Arzani, Matthews, Yengi, Jake Hollman, Farrell, et al, and where they were about a year ago.

Younis too? Also, a guy whose name escapes me, who played for CCM I think, played a few Socceroo games under Arnie and has been in the English Champ? I liked the look of him.

I caution fans not to get sets against specific players. They often improve weaknesses, or regain form quickly in a different club setting.

I've thought Hrustic should not be a Socceroo player, but he has improved quite a few weaknesses in his game in recent times.

I also thought Mabil has had his Socceroo time, but he scored a really difficult goal against Curacao.

Also looking at Italiano in the Aus u23s, I thought he was the least talented in the squad. He has kicked on. Ditto Yazbek.

Conversely, players I thought were far more talented in that team - haven't - Farrell, the DM from WSW who went to Scotland, Courtney- P, Brook, Teague, Jake Hollman ( shocking club decision going to League 2), Jelacic. Natta has just kicked on recently.

Quicky said:

Bennie can play there. Overy played far more than he didn't.

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This feels like 'potential talent' bias. Bennie has played RWB for the young socceroos and that is it. Never really at club level. Even his minutes this season have only hit the 'encouraging' level.
Overy has never played a professional club match.

These guys might have more talent and it is possible they have gone past Atkinson. But not based on anything any of us could see. We would need to be watching them all regularly and/or seeing them in training to make this judgement. Based on what we can see, neither of them are close to solving this position for us.

Atkinson is a known quantity. We have seen him for the NT and he is visible in the Aleague. So his flaws are front of mind and this is why he isn't a popular pick here. On paper, Atkinson is just as valid a selection as Bennie, Overy, Strain, Italiano.

JS96 said:

No, not at all. I'm saying that past world cup squads have had a few fillers who we wouldn't expect to get time nor would contribute much. 2014 was the worst. This current squad will see every player being totally ready to play. Popovic has rotated well and knows who he has.

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Yes, for all the complaints and huffing etc that we have done as a collective fan base, overall we are in a surprisingly good place heading into this World Cup. Hats off to Poppa. Whilst not brilliant, he (and Arnie before him) have done quite well.

Hillbilly55 said:

Yes, for all the complaints and huffing etc that we have done as a collective fan base, overall we are in a surprisingly good place heading into this World Cup. Hats off to Poppa. Whilst not brilliant, he (and Arnie before him) have done quite well.

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and thats it afterall just go for the ride and see where we land.

Decentric said:

As you start to look at O’Neill’s stats over time:

He makes more intercepts than any other central midfielders.

He causes more turnovers from this position.

He is the most proficient hard ball winner as a DM.

Three massive attributes.

Then one adds his composure on the ball under pressure, and O’N walks into the current team - plus experience.

Younger players Robertson, Okon Jr, Yazbek, Youlley, Valadon, Bozinovski, et al, are already as good or better technically, but lack the experience and reading of the game O’N has ATM. He makes killer passes going forwards too.

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The biggest problem I have with O'Neill at the moment is the number of injuries in the squad. Souttar will be under a bit of a cloud. Yazbek in the midfield is out, Irvine and O'Neill both with injury clouds. Surely you can't take both.

Atkinson seems to have lost some of the confidence he once had bombing forward and we have other options that are more solid defensively.
Pity cos RWB suits him more than RB.

Decentric said:

Disagree with the former sentence - in relative terms.

The latter - the recent number of players that Popa has tried, with little previous Socceroo experience, and who have succeeded, or had qualified success, I would not discount Stensness.

Not sure who here has been watching the league Stensness plays in? Norway? Sweden?Like many he could have improved.

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He plays in the Toppserien and his club is top of the table. He’s scored some goals for them. The Baltic-Scandinavian (non-Danish) season goes from March till November though so his season isn’t close to being over yet.

Quicky said:

Sounds like Silvera

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Correct!

Thanks!

I thought Silvera was a decent technician. Not sure what has occurred at club level, but have been surprised he hasn't been reselected? I thought he was similar technical quality to Hrustic, but worked harder off the ball.

What might have been the making of Hrustic was going to Serie B. In Italy they consider defensive duties to be paramount. I don't think he played much? He might have worked his guts out on improving his off the ball game in Ball Possession Opposition, which could have helped when he went back to the Eredivisie.

HonestSpursFan said:

He plays in the Toppserien and his club is top of the table. He’s scored some goals for them. The Baltic-Scandinavian (non-Danish) season goes from March till November though so his season isn’t close to being over yet.

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Thanks, HSF.

patjennings said:

The biggest problem I have with O'Neill at the moment is the number of injuries in the squad. Souttar will be under a bit of a cloud. Yazbek in the midfield is out, Irvine and O'Neill both with injury clouds. Surely you can't take both.

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Souttar has been out for a long time.

Even at his best it would be hard to dislodge the current manifestations of Circati, Burgess, Rowles, Deg and the fast impoving Herrington as CBs, and how they've performed for the Roos in recent times. Trewin hasn't done much wrong either. Plus he and Rowles have been decent defensive wing backs.

If people say Trewin was culpable for the 3rd goal against Colombia - true. Whoever conceded the Col corner was also culpable.

Elder got a bad decision for the Colombia first and the Col pen.

Deg and Izzo miscommunicated for the Colombia 2nd.

So were Behich, Circati and Rowles culpable for the Curacao goal too. Plus Ryan made a poor save.

Hillbilly55 said:

Yes, for all the complaints and huffing etc that we have done as a collective fan base, overall we are in a surprisingly good place heading into this World Cup. Hats off to Poppa. Whilst not brilliant, he (and Arnie before him) have done quite well.

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Nice to see some Popa appreciation!

One can only credit him with trying so many young players.

Despite whatever results at the WC I hope he stays on for another few years to see the transition of so many of the u25s as starting Socceroo players.

I've done a lot of stats lately. One aspect that has surprised me over the Colombia, Cameroon and Curacao games, is compared to the the number of balls they managed to play into the Aussie defensive pen box, what a high percentage were easily repelled and were ineffective.

Even Colombia had 22 balls out of 27 played into the Aus defensive pen box, repelled. Ditto Curacao and Cameroon to a greater extent. The difference was that if a Roo player cleared by foot or head, the second ball was won more effectively by a Colombian player than Cameroon or Curacao.

Also, if Socceroos played out or ball carried out of the Aus defensive pen box, Colombia Squeezed more effectively in closing down time and space on the ball.

Decentric said:

Souttar has been out for a long time.

Even at his best it would be hard to dislodge the current manifestations of Circati, Burgess, Rowles, Deg and the fast impoving Herrington as CBs, and how they've performed for the Roos in recent times. Trewin hasn't done much wrong either. Plus he and Rowles have been decent defensive wing backs.

If people say Trewin was culpable for the 3rd goal against Colombia - true. Whoever conceded the Col corner was also culpable.

Elder got a bad decision for the Colombia first and the Col pen.

Deg and Izzo miscommunicated for the Colombia 2nd.

So were Behich, Circati and Rowles culpable for the Curacao goal too. Plus Ryan made a poor save.

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At his best Souttar is head and shoulders above all those mentioned except Circati. If he is 90% or more of his best then he should be starting, depending on fitness levels.

Cunningstunt said:

This feels like 'potential talent' bias. Bennie has played RWB for the young socceroos and that is it. Never really at club level. Even his minutes this season have only hit the 'encouraging' level.
Overy has never played a professional club match.

These guys might have more talent and it is possible they have gone past Atkinson. But not based on anything any of us could see. We would need to be watching them all regularly and/or seeing them in training to make this judgement. Based on what we can see, neither of them are close to solving this position for us.

Atkinson is a known quantity. We have seen him for the NT and he is visible in the Aleague. So his flaws are front of mind and this is why he isn't a popular pick here. On paper, Atkinson is just as valid a selection as Bennie, Overy, Strain, Italiano.

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The first three - yes. Agree.

Your arguments re Overy and Bennie are sound.

Based on Socceroos, Strain isn't as good as Atkinson either.

However, I've had a good look at Italiano over the last 6 Roo games and he has done well at RWB. I'm really surprised how much he has improved. He is pretty well as good as Miller now as first choice RWB.

Italiano isn't as rugged as Miller against big, strong opponents, but he is is holding his own and better in 1v1s. He is also a better technician at dribbling and ball carrying, has a superior first touch than Miller, and is a bit quicker and opens superior passing lanes going forwards with proactive movement to support the Roo ball carriers.

Miller is more useful to negate physical bully type opponents though - like De Vries for the Kiwis or the rugged Canadian LB. Also, Miller is better in the air and can score goals from set pieces, plus defend set pieces well.

Miller also brutalised Colombia too - he had a plus 10 ledger of unique 1v1s out of 16 contested, winning 13 and losing 3. Given Colombia were subtly the best 1v1 opponents we have played since Popa took over, it was needed most too.

I think Geria is okay as RWB too.

I'm really astonished Metcalfe hasn't been tried as RWB, or LWB? He has all the skills required.

Decentric said:

Souttar has been out for a long time.

Even at his best it would be hard to dislodge the current manifestations of Circati, Burgess, Rowles, Deg and the fast impoving Herrington as CBs, and how they've performed for the Roos in recent times. Trewin hasn't done much wrong either. Plus he and Rowles have been decent defensive wing backs.

If people say Trewin was culpable for the 3rd goal against Colombia - true. Whoever conceded the Col corner was also culpable.

Elder got a bad decision for the Colombia first and the Col pen.

Deg and Izzo miscommunicated for the Colombia 2nd.

So were Behich, Circati and Rowles culpable for the Curacao goal too. Plus Ryan made a poor save.

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The question was more about the midfielders and Souttar was there for context. You made the point that there are plenty of cover in the backs - which there are. My point was more we already have lost Yazbek and Irvine and O'Neill both have injury clouds.

We have cover for Souttar if he breaks down again and he has a background of going in cold and being arguably our best player in 2022. So it would not surprise me if Popovic does oust Degenek for instance.

However, the question I posed was do we risk two spots in midfield when both have been on again off with injury for months.

scout_aussie said:

Brattan is hugely underrated. It's almost criminal that he will retire having played for Australia only once. He was just about the best player in the A-League this season, people are just so used to him being good that it doesn't register anymore.

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I’m not sure he is really underrated. He is a good player and works hard but the only time he featured for the Socceroos he looked lost.