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The Football Australia Thread

Those prices are ridiculous. How are we supposed to achieve big things when it costs up to $3,000 just to play? Kits and balls cost the same since obviously the FA don’t control that but we’re higher in every other metric. This means you either have to be rich or make sacrifices for a kid to succeed in soccer. Didn’t the Irankundas have to pull their other sons out so they could afford for Nestory to develop into a star? While obviously they wouldn’t have been as good as him they coulda been decent enough to make it as pro players.
We have an issue of not following best economic practices everywhere in the game

We use central planning to raise standards of clubs, youth development and everything else and the consensus of economists is that central planning doesn't work. It can be deceptive because it can produce initial impressive results (the soviet planned economy, the planned towns in Australia) but you always end up worse off because central planners aren't as adaptable as free markets. Licensing criteria is costing 1600 of that wage bill

In England they follow the best practice of the mixed economy

- relatively free market where government intervention is only when it can be justified. This is exemplified by an open pyramid with very gentle off field criteria to go up levels
- a welfare state where 30% of the FA's money goes back into the grass roots. I'd like to see that more generous
- regulation only based on externalities, like fair play rules trying to reduce systemic risk or preventing exploitative practices like players not being paid
 
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Looked at the difference in governance in football tas and victoria

- victoria seems to have a lower quorum threshold. Tasmania require 60% of clubs to be present to have a quorum and Victoria just 15% which makes it easier for a group of clubs to lobby and pressure in victoria
- Victoria allows a general meeting with voting to be called if 10% of clubs want it. No provision is in tasmania.

That's the only relevant differences I can find. Be curious what others can find

I'm also confused about whether they have zones or not
 
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I can't remember lol. I probably should do it in a pod, I think in the coach rory interview? I also wrote a roar article but the formatting meant I was cautious not making it too mathy

Breakdown per kid was roughly follows in AUD (I need to look at my old documents for exact values)

ItemPrice in EnglandPrice in Australia
Field hire0*$300-$600
Kit,referees, training balls etc$700$700
Liscense and registration fees$50$333
Investment*-$2000
Youth Coaches0$1300
Total$550$2633-$2933

*This is major cost difference as the FA in England spend 30% of their budget revinvesting into the game, compared to 1% locally. They do not get subsidies from the EPL and they actually have less revenue per participant than we do, just different budget priorities. AFC stoneham split the cost of their fields three ways with the FA and the local council for example
**This is the figure it was hardest to be sure of the numbers. English clubs, being in an open pyramid youth is a way to get more revenue even low down the pyramid, as good youth could mean promotion, whereas youth in Australia are only subsidized out of a clubs' good will. Clubs in England usually have more amateurs which are used to subsidize the youth. As a result more than half of English players are adults, unlike Australia where it is mostly a kids game. More amateurs also means more fans. The exact numbers are likely to vary by club and some clubs in Australia claim to subsidize their youth and some are accused of profiting to subsidize the senior team but I couldn't confirm that. The numbers are likely to vary in England a lot too
***This was the biggest difference. Our licensing puts minimum qualification requirements on youth coaches and technical directors. While this is in principle possible to have with volunteers, it is hard and so clubs have to hire people. Wallsall united insisted on volunteers only and managed to get their costs down under a $1000 per kid. This is apparently tricky to scale, since you are forced to have people with certain coaching qualifications and there is not enough around to insist on voluteers.
You forgot to mention the NSL haters battlecry of "da effnickz rob parents to pay for the first team" Its been mentioned so many times on this forum I would have thought it would have somehow manifested as truth by sheer xenophobia alone.
 
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We have an issue of not following best economic practices everywhere in the game

We use central planning to raise standards of clubs, youth development and everything else and the consensus of economists is that central planning doesn't work. It can be deceptive because it can produce initial impressive results (the soviet planned economy, the planned towns in Australia) but you always end up worse off because central planners aren't as adaptable as free markets. Licensing criteria is costing 1600 of that wage bill

In England they follow the best practice of the mixed economy

- relatively free market where government intervention is only when it can be justified. This is exemplified by an open pyramid with very gentle off field criteria to go up levels
- a welfare state where 30% of the FA's money goes back into the grass roots. I'd like to see that more generous
- regulation only based on externalities, like fair play rules trying to reduce systemic risk or preventing exploitative practices like players not being paid
I'm following in part from another thread if I recall right your question, is Lowy that much to blame or something as such Graz ?
Then above we have agreed not best economic practice's.
This in part is a major piece why NSL had so many barriers/issues that was very complicated due to so many external/internal factors but the crushing scenario was Lowy going his own way leveraging his portfolio and contacts ie Howard in supporting his new game/business.
As we know that set back development wise a decade+ at least and mind you a hangover.
Our game still has no better practice in openning up ?!
We have 2 major bodies on separate paths.
This in part lit the fuse/grew these over inflated grass roots costs - grass roots/NPL was left to fend for itselves.
How was any Club/NSL particularly going to survive on the fumes of a oily rag - academies !
In turn this also fuelled the private sector of academies that are another level of cost rip offs suckers pertake in.
Lowy was ALL talk/red herrings about opening the game up, if anyone believes this your dreaming !
His vision Westfields/MLS - if he could have pulled it off he would be as happy as sic Murdoch would be having built a great empire having been a dirty scoundral rogue but admired by the ingnorant ones.
Building empires is about crushing any opponent through its growth and maintain it !
He would have had the FFA/FA by the short and curlies......
and here we are - thanks Frank, you sure pulled the wool over the average bear but they were easy, consumers eh.

In the meantime one of the largest football countries (UK) keeps on keeping on, run by 1 body !
Sure they are NOT perfect but at least have some commom sense for the game all told unlike here.
 
You forgot to mention the NSL haters battlecry of "da effnickz rob parents to pay for the first team" Its been mentioned so many times on this forum I would have thought it would have somehow manifested as truth by sheer xenophobia alone.
Havent seen that here for ages to be fair. On reddit some actually got angry with me for giving the budget breakdown saying they just know and i was justifying the expenses

One of the users who said that (novel) has left
 
All good points LFC.

Isn’t the Premier League run separately from the EFL though (1992 split)?
yes ofcourse KW but least they are linked via P/R and funds stream right down pretty good for relegated and promoted clubs.
While they are separate corporate entities, they work together under the FA framework for competition rules.
Its polar opposites to our situation hence part of the struggles imo - how we still have semi pro even just the one main level is astounding for '26 and on for now.

Promotion/Relegation: The systems are interconnected; three teams are relegated from the EPL to the Championship, and three are promoted from the Championship to the EPL each season.
Lower Leagues: Below the EFL are the "non-league" divisions, starting with the National League, which are part of the broader FA pyramid but separate from both the EPL and EFL.

All makes sense eh.
 
some very valid interesting comments made by the one people dislike Robbie Slater on the NRL's new PNG club and its financial support compared to our game !

Like all football fans, I was mesmerised this morning watching Paris Saint-Germain against Bayern Munich – but got a reality check when my morning slot on Fox Sports News was cancelled because of a Wests Tigers press conference discussing Jarome Luai’s signing with the Papua New Guinea Chiefs.

That’s where football sits, unfortunately, so is it any wonder we’re without a Home of Football?

All that talk recently, sparked by a letter from FIFA to Australia’s Prime Minister urging the federal government to invest in building one, really frustrated me.

This, though, sums it all up: $600 million over 10 years for an overseas NRL team, but the global game in Australia remains nomadic.

I understand there are diplomatic and security strategic reasons for the government investing in this rugby league team – but – the disparity, at the same time as this FIFA letter, is something that needs to be called out for football’s sake.

It is an indictment on our sport, which has over 100 years of history. We keep hearing about it being the most participated in sport in the country, but it’s always been a hugely popular sport – it has been since I was a boy.

And yet, here we are.

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I’m tired of seeing other sports open up shiny new world class facilities while our Socceroos, playing at the biggest tournament in sport, come home to train on Leichhardt Oval. Ironically, that is about to get a refurbishment, after the Wests Tigers also just got a beautiful new training facility in Concord in Sydney. Manly, another NRL club, is another example of a club that got a refurb with government support.

How are we one of just four countries from the last World Cup, without a home for the No.1 sport in the world? It’s shameful.

Why is it such a big deal? Why am I writing a column on Football360 about it?

It’s not just about the Socceroos having somewhere to play on the half a dozen occasions they’re home a year.

The Emerging Socceroos Championships held last week, run by Football Australia, is another example. They were held at the home of Football New South Wales.

It’s about the Joeys, the national youth teams: having camps, stability, building a culture.

How can you have a culture if you don’t have a home?



It’s like saying you have a family, but don’t have a house. It is like in business, having all these employees, but you don’t have an office – how do you build a culture? You don’t.
Look across Asia now; from the Middle East to closer to home, there’s a centrepiece for each of our continental rivals as part of their investment in football.

Across Asia and around the world, billions are being invested into football – be it for national teams, homes of football, junior development, for example – and the reason is, football is the major sport in those countries.

Here’s the thing: given how competitive the landscape is here, we’ve got to be at our best all the time. We’ve been our own worst enemy to still be in this situation after qualifying for six men’s World Cups in a row.

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Mile Jedinak and Tony Popovic at Leichhardt Oval. Photo: Ann Odong
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The Socceroos training at Leichhardt Oval. Photo: Ann Odong
For a sport battling for attention, this week’s PNG example a prime one, we need to be united and at our very best.

I believe we are where we are now as a consequence of the two worst decisions in the history of the sport.

Wherever I go in my professional circles, be it at Fox Sports, Sky Racing, or socially, I get asked the same thing by friends from other sports: you actually got rid of the Lowys?

In my opinion, it is the single, stupidest decision the game has made.

Let’s go back to when the game was at death’s door. Frank Lowy didn’t need to get involved in football. He did it because he loved the game. He’s a football person.

Here, finally, football had someone with leverage in the corridors of power, who could contact Prime Ministers, who had the clout to land the game Fox Sports and Hyundai at a time we were in no position to attract them. As my boss David Malone said at Fox Sports at the time, they were taking a leap of faith. Lowy had that sway on the powers that be.

And what did we do, as a game? See you later.

I’ll never forget what Frank’s son, Steven, said at his farewell press conference. Be careful what you wish for.

Were the Lowys perfect? Of course not. That’s life. Nobody is. Was the transition process perfect? It caused a lot of issues at the time.

But where are we now, as a game, without their leadership and involvement?

If you’re saying, come on Robbie, why are you bringing up events from six years ago? Well, it’s because, right now, we’re not holding the same sway in the corridors of power.

Look at the fractured nature of the way the game is run; which conversation do they take? Is it with Football Australia? The Member Federations?

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The game might be working on building those relationships with the government, but of course governments are going to be more circumspect on allocation of funds. They just need to look at the Australian Professional Leagues and what they did with Silverlake’s $140 million.

And that brings us to the second monumental mistake, in my opinion. The separation of the A-League from Football Australia.

It’s time, five years on, for those who engineered that breakaway to just come out and say: we got it wrong.

But we never heard from Paul Lederer, Simon Pearce, Scott Barlow or Anthony Di Petro.

Why have they been perennially silent?

Just look down the road at rugby league. When something happens in that sport, Peter V’landys is on the front foot, showing leadership, speaking for the sport.

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Empty seats have been an unfortunate feature of the A-League season. Photo: Lucas Petrou
No one is taking responsibility for where we’re at, on the eve of an A-Leagues finals series where crowds in the men’s competition have never been more concerning and the A-League Women is – not in my words, in those of the players – needing a reboot.

I don’t just want to point out the problems, but five years on, someone has to speak the truth with the state of things.

We’re not getting the Lowys back, but I want to call for unity, because without that, we will only be able to see a Home of Football and progress for the sport as a fantasy, not a dream to aspire to.

It’s no secret I believe that the game is in a stronger position if the A-League is back under Football Australia under one umbrella, because we are more powerful as a sport when we are united; everyone needs to put their collective hands up and start working together.

Then, only then, will we be able to start to even think about laying bricks at a Home of Football, let alone having one.


For the record I'm surprised his mention of Lowy but it is valid re turning Pro just that it excluded everyone else in the game for as he says United we are strong but we are not - its a massive scare on our game period and worse so are the whimps who run the FA.
 
some very valid interesting comments made by the one people dislike Robbie Slater on the NRL's new PNG club and its financial support compared to our game !
Crazy that we gave so much money to the PNG Chiefs in rugby league when we can’t invest in soccer here. Just shows where their priorities are. To be fair PNG is poor and relies on Australian aid for its existence. People are saying “security benefits” but it seems quite unlikely that PNG would dump Australia for China.
 
yes granted PNG relies on us more so economically but for a sport that comes down to influence by the powers hence as Slater mentions here we are with feck all as usual.
Tassie gets that billion$ stad for afl, PNG now gets all this for NRL.
We know where we stand - very low in the pecking order and people in our Governance lacking any punch or stratergy to help grow our game hence milking/relying on our 2 NT's for all they can.
Very narrow approach in this day and age.
 
Can the FA find overseas investors to the fund things like the COE/Home of football, if govt can’t help us?

Is that even allowed? I mean if football is below the pecking order even if some of the results of the national teams can’t convince these politicians who has their scarfs on, what else could the game do to get investment needed in the sport.

Heck even the Lowys with their influence couldn’t get a Home of football created so I don’t think it’s mutually exclusive to that reason alone.
 
Presented without comment.


It’s a pretty dangerous place if you do things the wrong way. Port Moresby is run by gangs of raskols (“rascals” in Tok Pisin) who roam the streets armed with knives and guns. Tribal violence happens in the Highlands. Election cycles, political demonstrations and even sports matches or live showings (such as State of Origin games at pubs) turn violent since alcohol, betel nut and marijuana are easy to access. Corruption is rampant in institutions. Poverty is quite common with many homes not even having internet.

That’s not even mentioning the struggles women go through there. The majority (figures vary but it’s a majority) of women in PNG experience domestic violence and sexual assault during their lifetime. Solo female travellers are rare in the country because simply walking around, especially at night, could lead to them being raped, tortured and/or even killed. Gang rape in particular is quite common too.

There’s a very strong argument that while PNG should be independent that they were given independence too early by Gough Whitlam’s Labor government and that Australia should’ve built up infrastructure there rather than have it rely on foreign aid. This argument is supported by the successes of French overseas territories such as New Caledonia, a functioning and developed multicultural and multilingual society (even if their push for independence has certainly been violent at times).

Further reading:
 

Seems a pretty random requirement
'national sporting organisations must have at least 40 per cent of their boards comprised of directors who are appointed by the board, as opposed to those elected by its members.'

Wait - they want a large chunk of the board to appoint itself??
 
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