Could the failures of Macarthur FC and Western United prove that cities can only justify having one or two franchise clubs? Would a Wollongong team have done better if they got Macarthur’s spot, or perhaps a Geelong team in place of Western’s?

HonestSpursFan said:

Could the failures of Macarthur FC and Western United prove that cities can only justify having one or two franchise clubs? Would a Wollongong team have done better if they got Macarthur’s spot, or perhaps a Geelong team in place of Western’s?

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Wollongong would have kicked arse. The Illawarra region has a shitload of players who are very engaged and when the Australian Championship comes to town they rock up.

erogenouszone said:

Wollongong would have kicked arse. The Illawarra region has a shitload of players who are very engaged and when the Australian Championship comes to town they rock up.

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If they’re were adamant they wanted to continue down this path with the current system Wollongong wolves and canberra united would have been the ones.

Glenardo said:

Just fuck em off already, everybody already knows eventually they’ll cease to exist Ala northern spirit, parramatta power, Carlton sc etc etc why delay the inevitable. A failed experiment no one ever asked for. They’ve very much got that air about them unlike your Sydney fc, wanderers, melb victory etc who you get the sense would survive in some way or another should the league not survive in its current form

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Pretty much backs up what I said. Can see there which of the “new” entities have a future and have been a relative success. Sydney fc, Adelaide United, Melbourne victory, wanderers etc

To be expected re Macathur being bottom, also don’t forget that’s boosted by the visits of Sydney fc and wanderers.

Also I know it’s boosted by the derbies but that’s actually not that bad for wanderers considering they were bottom by a long way.

Glenardo said:

View attachment 6615
Pretty much backs up what I said.
Can see there which of the “new” entities have a future and have been a relative success. Sydney fc, Adelaide United, Melbourne victory, wanderers etc

To be expected re Macathur being bottom, also don’t forget that’s boosted by the visits of Sydney fc and wanderers.

Also I know it’s boosted by the derbies but that’s actually not that bad for wanderers considering they were bottom by a long way.

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I’ve said it in here before they are a nothing club. All they do, if anything, is make things harder for other clubs by taking their players/beating them occasionally etc. Pointless. Also the cowbells are atrocious

But back to finals


I hope there’s heaps of injuries and red cards this weekend

More dire crowds within Australia for the finals cuming up. Unlike NZ where its possible Auckland might sell out.

AFC 2 v 1 City Crowd 22k
Vuck 3 v 1 SFC Crowd 10k

erogenouszone said:

Wollongong would have kicked arse. The Illawarra region has a shitload of players who are very engaged and when the Australian Championship comes to town they rock up.

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Big Macedonian community down there. Probably woulda helped a lot.

Glenardo said:

If they’re were adamant they wanted to continue down this path with the current system Wollongong wolves and canberra united would have been the ones.

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grazorblade said:

I think 1 franchise per major population, then a second to provide a derby then all other teams be grassroots clubs in an open system. Introduce new franchises if one gets relegated to the npl (if they get promoted and survive, even better we have more teams and to be competitive to win a world cup we need a lot more teams capable of performing in a national league than the nsl and a league combined)

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This seems to work in the MLS where only LA and NYC have two teams, while in the NWSL there are teams in each city with no double-ups (therefore derbies are regional, e.g the SoCal Derby between Angel City and San Diego Wave). American sports leagues are big with teams in each city, with their fanbases being built on city pride and fans mostly from that area (unless they’re international or from a place without a team, e.g. Anaheim has no MLS team so they would usually presumably pick one of the LA teams; I guess fans in Alaska, Hawaii, Puerto Rico, etc usually pick a random team though).

HonestSpursFan said:

This seems to work in the MLS where only LA and NYC have two teams, while in the NWSL there are teams in each city with no double-ups (therefore derbies are regional, e.g the SoCal Derby between Angel City and San Diego Wave). American sports leagues are big with teams in each city, with their fanbases being built on city pride and fans mostly from that area (unless they’re international or from a place without a team, e.g. Anaheim has no MLS team so they would usually presumably pick one of the LA teams; I guess fans in Alaska, Hawaii, Puerto Rico, etc usually pick a random team though).

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Interesting tangent on this, and apologies if it’s niche, the team bidding for the second nyc license was originally New York Cosmos which was the biggest team in the previous national league the NASL (formerly home to pele, beckenbauer etc and drawing crowds of 70k+ in the 70s-80s) and they were proposing building a stadium where the current NYCFC (city group) team are building one as we speak, first new stadium to be built in NYC proper for quite some time fwiw and quite a feat to pull off (even NFL don’t have a stadium in NYC proper). New York cosmos being a pre existing entity as opposed to a brand new franchise and one with a fair bit of name recognition and history in their own right by American standards they didn’t want to sell the rights to their name, logo, brand etc etc to the MLS which is one of the conditions of entry. They were trying barter and saying the league should change its model if it wanted them in..they ended up calling their bluff and just selling the licence to city group instead. Ever since they’ve been one of the main entities trying to push for alternate leagues and for an open league system and pro rel in the US as the mls have basically said “2 teams in NYC is enough, applications closed”.

Not completely analogous but maybe the closest equivalent I can see elsewhere to the situation we have here. An interesting twist of fate for a club which was probably the original example of “modern football”

Glenardo said:

Interesting tangent on this, and apologies if it’s niche, the team bidding for the second nyc license was originally New York Cosmos which was the biggest team in the previous national league the NASL (formerly home to pele, beckenbauer etc and drawing crowds of 70k+ in the 70s-80s) and they were proposing building a stadium where the current NYCFC (city group) team are building one as we speak, first new stadium to be built in NYC proper for quite some time fwiw and quite a feat to pull off (even NFL don’t have a stadium in NYC proper). New York cosmos being a pre existing entity as opposed to a brand new franchise and one with a fair bit of name recognition and history in their own right by American standards they didn’t want to sell the rights to their name, logo, brand etc etc to the MLS which is one of the conditions of entry. They were trying barter and saying the league should change its model if it wanted them in..they ended up calling their bluff and just selling the licence to city group instead. Ever since they’ve been one of the main entities trying to push for alternate leagues and for an open league system and pro rel in the US as the mls have basically said “2 teams in NYC is enough, applications closed”.

Not completely analogous but maybe the closest equivalent I can see for the situation we have here. An interesting twist of fate for a club which was probably the original example of “modern football”

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This is a good point too. I suppose a comparison would be South Melbourne’s bid for Western United’s spot.

The location of a stadiums is another thing America does interestingly due to the spread of its population. MetLife Stadium is being advertised as “New York City” for the World Cup and in sports in general but it’s actually in East Rutherford in New Jersey, part of the broader New York metropolitan area (the largest metropolitan economy in the world, spanning over various counties in four states with a population only a few million short of Australia’s). Of course while this works in most US cities very well, this wouldn’t work in Australia because our cities aren’t built like that (here it would be like a stadium for a Sydney team in Bathurst).

HonestSpursFan said:

This is a good point too. I suppose a comparison would be South Melbourne’s bid for Western United’s spot.

The location of a stadiums is another thing America does interestingly due to the spread of its population. The New Jersey/New York metro area crosses state borders so “New York” teams often play outside NYC or even in NJ.

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My 2c; the MLS have obviously done plenty right in the context of their marketplace, but they’ve fucked it with NYC. Both the NY teams are on the nose in terms of authenticity in probably one of the only cities in the US which really values that sort of thing. One is red bull and the other is city group. If it had been NY cosmos imo they’d have potential to be the biggest club in the country. It’s like they’ve gone for 2 Melbourne citys and left out Melbourne victory

And yes, there are specificities to it re nyc, I won’t go too deep into it and sidetrack the discussion any further but it does matter to locals whether a team is forced to play in jersey out of necessity Vs whether they were founded in jersey and they just lop on the NYC branding for marking reasons.

Also that NYC Metro area is in 3 states, but the broader urban area actually really stretches all the way down Washington DC and encompasses atleast half a a dozen states and it’s hard to know where one place and the other finishes, almost akin to the Brisbane - Gold Coast area in qld. so there’s a fairly high density of professional soccer teams in that part of the country anyway, makes no sense to artificially constrain how many teams can come from where imo

That’s my rant, back to the topic at hand

someguyjc said:

Not cool hoping players get injured.

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What if they get the flu or something?

jimshady said:

What if they get the flu or something?

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What if they get lost in traffic or something lol?

FeedTheBrox said:

I care about finals. I'm not sure why anyone wouldn't.

Everyone on the forum acknowledges Newcastle as the champion. But i still want my team to win the toilet seat.

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I don't care because it's not true to the sport. The aus cup and finishing first gets you in asia this is just performative.

Although maybe our marketing isn't as bad as we thought because people fall for it

tsf said:

but could also go out 4-0 to Sydney this weekend

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If Sydney score 4 goals I'll put Scott Morrison in my avatar for a week.

HonestSpursFan said:

What if they get lost in traffic or something lol?

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A series of comedic events like the Simpsons softball episode would be good.