Welcome!

By registering with us, you'll be able to discuss, share and private message with other members of our community.

Sign Up Now!

Match stats/analysis for recent Socceroo games

JS 96 put up a good highlights replay of the game showing the goal we conceded.

Thanks, JS.

I have no doubt many thought Rowles was culpable, BUT Behich was languid in closing down the Cur RB. Hence he had time and space launching an aerial ball forwards, where Circati lost a 1v1 heading duel, and the ball was knocked on to the Curacao runner, who was quicker than Rowles, but the Aus LCB tracked him.

Also, Ryan let the ball go under his body in the shot.

Hence, 4 players are culpable not one.

I've also seen Quicky post analysis from a Podcast suggesting many Socceroo goals conceded are in the Left CB area. Interesting?

I wonder if this is a common phenomenon with most teams, as most players prefer the right foot, hence right flank?

Also, I think Q suggested that Bos players a higher line than Behich when he plays Left WB than the Melb City captain. Also , interesting.

I wanted to have a better look at Elder, who played about 30 mins in the Colombia game. I'm starting to worry about Behich as LB or LCB.

Gee, I was disappointed that Robertson had so few minutes. I really wanted to have a good look at him.
 
Cameroon full game hasn't reappeared on Paramount, but the Curacao game has.

I'm up to the 63 min mark in the Curacao match, just before Iran, Bos and McGree come on as subs.

I'm only recording passing stats in a first replay look, and will do the rest- 1v1s, shots, ball played into pen box, etc - at the second attempt.

I have found a few interesting things, which will surprise some G and G members, as a few have Socceroo villains ( who are culpable for everything bad) and heroes ( who do nothing wrong).

* Even in the 15 mins Villupillay has replaced Hrustic he is far busier across the pitch - more energetic closing down of players on the ball, tracking back to help the left side of defence stay compact, more likely to force turnovers, wins hard balls . He also sprints back to keep the team shape compact in defence.

* In Hrustic's time on the pitch, he made 1 excellent left foot cross for Mabil to hit the post. Forced a turnover for Trewin to intercept and pass the ball to Juric in the pen box, to back heel for Mabil's superbly taken goal. Early on he forced a block in the left flank of the attacking third. He has found space and passed a bit more than Mabil, who has been ignored. Neither did much though, outside the goal action, where Mabil could have scored 3.

I reiterate, I can't see why Hrustic gets into the team ahead of Arzani?

* Circati - played too many awful straight balls up the pitch to the DM area, putting Roos under pressure with them being marked.
Trewin and Behich had little service out wide on the flanks. Straight balls are only a good option if a player is unmarked and can easily turn an play forwards in space.

Circati was also beaten in the heading duel that led to the Curacao goal. I often stopped the replay the moment Circati received. He often had 5 option to pass too, but didn't appear to have the spatial awareness and vision to play diagonally to players in more space. He did at times pass to Herrington/Geria, Ryan or Rowles. He headed a superb goal a few minutes after I stopped. By Circati's standards, h had a poor game in the first 60 mins.

* Ryan - a few times he played diagonal balls over range to Geria, who struggled to control them, and mishit his next pass. The Ryan hoofed it high and long to where Juric was often beaten in heading duels, or the ball went over Juric's head.

* Okon Jr - heard a Jake Entwhistle comment as a scoot, when he some good points, but one I totally disagree with, and if h e is a scout for overseas, he has a shocking deficit in one area of knowledge, and maybe some of the English clubs he scouts for, lack it too.

However, with Okon Jr, he was more suited as a DM than Metcalfe - who should have been tried as a Right WB, where his fast ball carrying skills can be put to use. Okon protected the ball well when receiving, hit some very good passes over range, won hard balls, made timely intercepts from reading the play well, as well as winning headers. Okon's handling speed is pretty decent too.

Jake - noted Okon Jr made some fast sprints over distance , both with and without the ball for SFC, which he did against Curacao. Metcalfe can do this too, but needs a bi of space on th flanks.

Herrington has better distribution than Geria in the sam e Right CB position . Albeit, Geria is a terrific ball winner and his defensive positional play is good.

*At this stage Rowles has been very solid, despite being outpaced by a faster player to concede the goal.

*Now at 63 mins, Juric has been better at 9 than against the rugged Cameroon defence. He can hold the ball up, is a decent target player, has good game sense, but the main issue is he doesn't seem to be able to find space by shaking his markers. I still can't remember any shots he has had in this game?
 
grazorblade said:
What was the point jake made that u disagreed with?
Click to expand...
The passing forwards one. Crediting players for passing forwards.

I can’t believe it?

Is Jake a scout primarily operating in Aus, or England? Both?

Jake also made a lot of very good points, which I’ll raise in the Podcast thread, amongst the current Popa bashing.

I thought Jake E was a terrific Podcast!
 
Decentric said:
The passing forwards one. Crediting players for passing forwards.

I can’t believe it?

Is Jake a scout primarily operating in Aus, or England? Both?

Jake also made a lot of very good points, which I’ll raise in the Podcast thread, amongst the current Popa bashing.

I thought Jake E was a terrific Podcast!
Click to expand...
Jake is indeed based in England, glad you enjoyed the pod!

My understanding is that it is indeed standard in every country in the world to credit players for passing forward. Progressive passing is not just the responsibility of forward options to open passing lanes, but players can be differentiated by their ability to pass the ball forward. This is not just an English view either!

See this french report of a player for example says
"What’s the passing lane here ? I don’t see it. Gboho does because he is good and creative."

This german language report also credits a player for their ability to pass forward

This dutch report that credits a player for the number of progressive passes per 90 they make

In our case, Okon jr and Scicluna have a clear advantage over other midfield options for the roos in their ability to make a forward pass. A player gets an advantage over other players through a number of skills, for example

- ability to recieve the ball on the turn without losing it. This means that even if you have the ball given to you with a bad body shape you can quickly get into a good body shape to pass forward
- ability to glance frequently and absorb information about forward movement before recieving the ball
- passing range as some passing lanes are close some are further away
- handling speed as some passing lanes are only open for a split second
- decision making and creativity
- ability to shield the ball until a passing lane opens (this is a feature okon excels at. It is why in his first game only 1 pass was backwards)
- Ability to carry the ball forward
 
fark me - crediting creative midfielders when they were dime a dozen once upon a time - just look at the latest jargon lol.....sorry you fellas.
Wth all this defensive outlook and passing back sideways Pirlo for one would have a field day with all these mugs/robots.
LFC's Thiago - imagine SG make all these defense's look like statues.
Oh what a sorry game stats has contributed to the lack of creative players.
 
grazorblade said:
Jake is indeed based in England, glad you enjoyed the pod!

My understanding is that it is indeed standard in every country in the world to credit players for passing forward. Progressive passing is not just the responsibility of forward options to open passing lanes, but players can be differentiated by their ability to pass the ball forward. This is not just an English view either!

See this french report of a player for example says
"What’s the passing lane here ? I don’t see it. Gboho does because he is good and creative."

This german language report also credits a player for their ability to pass forward

This dutch report that credits a player for the number of progressive passes per 90 they make

In our case, Okon jr and Scicluna have a clear advantage over other midfield options for the roos in their ability to make a forward pass. A player gets an advantage over other players through a number of skills, for example

- ability to recieve the ball on the turn without losing it. This means that even if you have the ball given to you with a bad body shape you can quickly get into a good body shape to pass forward
- ability to glance frequently and absorb information about forward movement before recieving the ball
- passing range as some passing lanes are close some are further away
- handling speed as some passing lanes are only open for a split second
- decision making and creativity
- ability to shield the ball until a passing lane opens (this is a feature okon excels at. It is why in his first game only 1 pass was backwards)
- Ability to carry the ball forward
Click to expand...
Not sure where you are getting all these from?

It contradicts what KNVB staff coaches, Ad Derkson and Arie Schans, imparted to Aus AL coaches and lower ranked community coaches in 2008.

They were emphatic that the ball is passed to players opening the best passing lanes - and - it was incumbent on the players’ movement in opening passing lanes off the ball, to determine where the ball carrier passed the ball.

Baan and Berger brought Derkson and Schans to Aus.

All things being equal, passing forwards is the best option.

Handling speed is important to give less time to tackle for opponents - whether the ball is passed straight back, diagonally backwards, square balls, diagonally forwards, or if a player is unmarked, straight ball forwards.

Whichever direction a ball is played the receiver needs to take a touch away from markers, then second touch pass it, or one touch pass it away from markers.

The handling speed of a player is paramount - to maintain team possession - whichever direction is chosen to play the ball, or move it.
 
LFC said:
fark me - crediting creative midfielders when they were dime a dozen once upon a time - just look at the latest jargon lol.....sorry you fellas.
Wth all this defensive outlook and passing back sideways Pirlo for one would have a field day with all these mugs/robots.
LFC's Thiago - imagine SG make all these defense's look like statues.
Oh what a sorry game stats has contributed to the lack of creative players.
Click to expand...
You might be missing the point, with due respect, LFC.

It is a question of playing the ball forwards at the right time. If one revisits the AL in the early years, the English Champ 10 years ago and prior, English League 1 and Scotland, the ball was played forwards as a greater priority. Hence, there were many more turnovers. The ball was in the Transitions - Defensive and Attacking - a lot more than the current sustained periods in Ball Possession and Ball Possession Opposition.

Most teams probe in the modern game. They play more cat and mouse to progress the build up forwards. All of the Socceroos recent opponents have.
 
Last edited:
Decentric said:
Not sure where you are getting all these from?

It contradicts what KNVB staff coaches, Ad Derkson and Arie Schans, imparted to Aus AL coaches and lower ranked community coaches in 2008.

They were emphatic that the ball is passed to players opening the best passing lanes - and - it was incumbent on the players’ movement in opening passing lanes off the ball, to determine where the ball carrier passed the ball.

Baan and Berger brought Derkson and Schans to Aus.

All things being equal, passing forwards is the best option.

Handling speed is important to give less time to tackle for opponents - whether the ball is passed straight back, diagonally backwards, square balls, diagonally forwards, or if a player is unmarked, straight ball forwards.

Whichever direction a ball is played the receiver needs to take a touch away from markers, then second touch pass it, or one touch pass it away from markers.

The handling speed of a player is paramount - to maintain team possession - whichever direction is chosen to play the ball, or move it.
Click to expand...
That would unfortunately be at odds with where the game is at now which shares responsibility between those on and off the ball for progressing it forwards

I havent done a uefa course mind u and can only take the word of people familiar with current ideas

The challenge is to get curricula that evolves as quickly as the game does. In my fan view I gave a system that i thought would do that. It is tricky because you always have a tradeoff in every system, and my system would have the negative of having different things taught at different courses in exchange for the positive of evolution and innovation. However a lot of curricula in european countries filters from clubs to the governing bodies' coaching courses and id try and mimic that
 
grazorblade said:
That would unfortunately be at odds with where the game is at now which shares responsibility between those on and off the ball for progressing it forwards

I havent done a uefa course mind u and can only take the word of people familiar with current ideas

The challenge is to get curricula that evolves as quickly as the game does. In my fan view I gave a system that i thought would do that. It is tricky because you always have a tradeoff in every system, and my system would have the negative of having different things taught at different courses in exchange for the positive of evolution and innovation. However a lot of curricula in european countries filters from clubs to the governing bodies' coaching courses and id try and mimic that
Click to expand...
I don’t see any change in style since 2008. It was still the same in coach education in Football Aus in 2016.

Players pass forwards at the optimum time - after probing for gaps, and trying to induce opposition teams to vacate space in certain areas, by inducing the closing down ball carriers.

I’m seeing this trend in the AL now. Ditto the ACL and Serie A. Plus the Socceroos and most opponents.
 
Last edited:
Decentric said:
I don’t see any change in style since 2008. It was still the same in coach education in Football Aus in 2016.

Players pass forwards at the optimum time - after probing for gaps, and trying to induce opposition teams to vacate space in certain areas, by inducing the closing down ball carriers.

I’m seeing this trend in the AL now. Ditto the ACL and Serie A. Plus the Socceroos and most opponents.
Click to expand...
We can agree to disagree if you wish

but players are differentiated on their ability to pass forward by people at a high level
 
Decentric said:
You might be missing the point, with due respect, LFC.

It is a question of playing the ball forwards at the right time.
Click to expand...
Right time is a given no matter the era - the ball player does this with vision and instint barring those who are not ball players
Decentric said:
If one revisits the AL in the early years, the English Champ 10 years ago and prior, English League 1 and Scotland, the ball was played forwards as a greater priority. Hence, there were many more turnovers.
Click to expand...
Turnovers are what team take advantage of today again no diff to before. Mistakes open doors read by quick thinking players.
Decentric said:
The ball was in the Transitions - Defensive and Attacking - a lot more than the current sustained periods in Ball Possession and Ball Possession Opposition.
Click to expand...
thats the main obvious diff today compared to before, holding possession, slow chess game, boring I do not admire teams/players playing as such its not hard passing passing passing incl using the GK.
Decentric said:
Most teams probe in the modern game. They play more cat and mouse to progress the build up forwards. All of the Socceroos recent opponents have.
Click to expand...
I'm watching more games than you do D, I know very well how its played.
Again boring even with the best of teams, more frustrating watching the Roos mind you - how are our shots per game avg more importantly and shots on target.
 
grazorblade said:
We can agree to disagree if you wish

but players are differentiated on their ability to pass forward by people at a high level
Click to expand...

I see some merit in this view, Grazor, but I contend it is more a question of general handling speed and skill on the ball, and quick thinking, that enables some players to pass forwards under pressure, or any direction, more effectively than others.

The point the Dutch KNVB staff coaches Derkson and Schans made, under the keen eye of RobBaan, and an awestruck, Kelly Cross, that the movement off the ball by teammates is paramount to maintain possession and progress the build up forwards. What they hammered home in all countries the KNVB visit around the world, is not to blame the ball carrier for passes failing. To more closely scrutinise the movement of players off the ball ostensibly supporting the ball carrier.

At a much lower level, when I was TD of an NPL club, I watched a game with the club Pres, N, ( with all the money). South Hobart played an Adelaide team, Metrostars?, in a NPL Cup game. On player for SH, who we will call S, ( know him), was constantly getting into good positions to open diagonal passing lanes for the South CBs to play out.

S did it early. He also lacked a bit of pace and was rumoured to be moving on for SH, looking for a club. The club Pres thought the CBs looked good. He couldn't see that midfielder, S, was enabling the CBs to look good, and said S wouldn't even make the NPL team at his club!

The next season, midfielder, S, changed clubs, to one coached by coaching pal, G, from FFA advanced coach ed courses and Nat Conferences. S captained G's team and they went on to make the final of the national NPL Knockout comp. Coach G immediately recognised S's clever off the ball movement, and general game sense, enhancing the team unit.

One point the also really KNVB pushed, which supports your view, Grazor, and others, was at all times to play or move ( run with the ball) the ball forwards to a viable teammate opening a passing lane, with as long a pass as possible if passing forwards.

Neither the off the ball movement, or, play forwards if at all possible, both advocated by the KNVB, has been advanced to the same extent in Football Aus coach ed, despite so much similar content overall.

Another good point you raised, Grazor, is the tiny fraction of a second, that sometimes occurs for an opportunity to play forwards, or make a killer pass.
 
Last edited:
LFC said:
Right time is a given no matter the era - the ball player does this with vision and instint barring those who are not ball players

Turnovers are what team take advantage of today again no diff to before. Mistakes open doors read by quick thinking players.

thats the main obvious diff today compared to before, holding possession, slow chess game, boring I do not admire teams/players playing as such its not hard passing passing passing incl using the GK.

I'm watching more games than you do D, I know very well how its played.
Again boring even with the best of teams, more frustrating watching the Roos mind you - how are our shots per game avg more importantly and shots on target.
Click to expand...
4 paragraphs here, LFC.

1. There is some merit in your historical view.

2. As a team unit, teams make far less mistakes in possession than they did in the leagues I mentioned.

3. I really like the chess game. I see it in Serie A, ACL, AL, and a lot of Socceroo and Matildas international games. Suthrerland Bear has also said the same as you. He doesn't like it much either. You two must have preferred the old AL of 2005-10 and Scotland.

4. I'm not sure you watch more games? You may watch more diverse leagues? I watch Serie A Cup games, Scottish Cup games, AL, ACL, Socceroos, Matildas, live NPL. I also watch some international UEFA countries playing each other. I don't pay to watch UEFA football.
Not quite sure what you meant in the last sentence? I may agree with you.
 
Decentric said:
4 paragraphs here, LFC.

1. There is some merit in your historical view.
Click to expand...
ofcourse there is merit - no matter the difference how the game is played you need X players who see the light through the tunnels - how else you going to create getting to the opposing box and shoot f ya.
Decentric said:
2. As a team unit, teams make far less mistakes in possession than they did in the leagues I mentioned.
Click to expand...
Well teams are getting forced more in making mistakes how compressed its played today actually.
Decentric said:
3. I really like the chess game. I see it in Serie A, ACL, AL, and a lot of Socceroo and Matildas international games. Suthrerland Bear has also said the same as you. He doesn't like it much either. You two must have preferred the old AL of 2005-10 and Scotland.
Click to expand...
Football has always been a game of chess, some play quick some take time, as mentioned SerieA from way back - they have always played from their own half but they also had either deep lying ball players or forward mids that could cut defense's wide open - ala Pirlo/Tardelli/Totti/Gattuso defensively helped creative players create......todays methodoligies and coaching is stifling individual gifted players hence its becoming a congested bore fest.
No I don't prefer hoof/long ball game but forward good one touch build up play that keeps turning defense's and opportunities are there - compared to chess, reset reset, back back sideways - I get the play but its ruinning entertaining football and choking individuals.
I hardly watch SPL - never rated it but for the big frim derby, and Ange there.
EPL/Championship/FACup/Caraboa/Italy/Spain/Bundas/CL/Europa/every major NT tournament/NPL/Prem1/grass roots...all Roo games never miss but not all Tildas - W game I struggle with at the best of times.
Decentric said:
4. I'm not sure you watch more games? You may watch more diverse leagues? I watch Serie A Cup games, Scottish Cup games, AL, ACL, Socceroos, Matildas, live NPL. I also watch some international UEFA countries playing each other. I don't pay to watch UEFA football.
Not quite sure what you meant in the last sentence? I may agree with you.
Click to expand...
Answered above what I view.
My last sentence is the money ball, the ball rattling the onion bag !
The wondereful BPO yaddayadda is riverting numbers, the amount of pass's in your own half and possession so riverting, the 1v1's, the contest of 2nd balls - mean poop all IF your haven't created from all that time/work first up getting into the last third what all the possesion is about, how many SHOTS ! and on TARGET ! and GOALS scored <<<<<<<< for that matters MOST full stop.
I'd be curious you stats guys do a summary comparo of our Roos time in opponents half especially the last third and in their box, shot/shots on target/goals compared to other NT's.
Be interesting.
 
I have some final passing stats for the Curacao game with players substituted at half time.

Stats compilation almost always show up things we don't expect.

JS96 is convinced Behich is a bad player. I think he is slightly on the decline, or other players are similar quality.

*Over the years I've been guilty of : overly focusing on Irvine's slightly cumbersome 2 touch passing - when he did everything else very well against Colombia! I should have given it more weighting!

*Hrustic - I've kept saying based on his stats against better teams, he should not be in the Socceroo set up. Even watching him live against Curacao, I observed faults. ADmitteldy, I was looking for them - which is not objective!

Yet his passing stats look very good against Cur! Haven't done his 1v1s yet, but I've criticised H's performances off the ball, whilst lauding his ability on the ball.

Just compiling passing stats I happened to observe;
- Hrustic made a good block high up the pitch on the left flank, preventing a Cur build up.
- He caused a turnover, for Trewin to skilfully read the play, anticipating a timely intercept, and pass to Juric to assist Mabil's goal!
- H played a brilliant cross from the left for Mabil to hit the post.

The block and turnover is unusual for Hrustic. Fair play to him for making them!

Then looking at his passing stats they were impressive for the first 42 mins, until he was injured.

* Hrustic
- made 5 defensive passes at 100% accuracy - all made under pressure in terms of time and space.
- 4 attacking passes at 67% accuracy, with 3 made under pressure in terms of time and space.
Total - 9 out of 11 passes attempted at circa 80% passing accuracy.
Total - 73% were made under time and space pressure.

In an advanced position this is impressive, particularly in defence at 100% passing accuracy made under time and space pressure.

Off the ball, which I won't scrutinise like I will in the second look at the replay stat compilation, I thought Hrustic didn't have the impact that Villupillay had when he replaced him in the second half. This was probably Hrustic's best performance from him since the second last round of Asian WCQs, against the easier teams.

*Herrington - like others, I thought watching live he was worse against Curcacao than Cameroon.
In terms of passing stats:
Defensive passes - 23 made at 100% accuracy. 7 made under time and space pressure.
Attacking passes - 3 made, with 2 mishit, at 33%. 0 made under pressure.
Total - 24 passes at 96% accuracy, with importantly 100% accuracy in defence.
Total - 28% made under pressure - with 7 pressure passes out of 28.

This is quite a lot of work for a CB in 45 mins.

Mishitting passes in the attacking third have little consequence if failing. In the defensive third, or even half, a mishit square pass can be catastrophic. On the ball Herrington was far better than I thought watching live.

Geria replacing Herrington has hit 2 mishit passes in the defensive half, whilst having 100% accuracy in attacking half , probably playing higher up the pitch than Herrington in the 18 mins Geria has played that I've reviewed.



*Metcalfe - played DM, when I thought Popa should have played him at Right WB instead of Trewin. Met is a better ball carrier at speed ( thanks to Jake E for shedding light on this in the Pod), better dribbler, and has attacking vision and craft.

Met was far less busy at DM than against Cameroon, where he had more ball than O'Neill. It reversed against Curacao.
In 45 mins:
- Defensive passes, Met hit 9 at 100%. 7 were made under pressure.
- Attacking passes, he hit 3 at 100% accuracy.
-Total - 10 passes made at 100% accuracy.
Total - 10 passes out of 12 made under pressure at 83%.

Metcalfe maintained the ball very well under pressure. Possibly didn't make any killer passes ( Football Aus jargon name for defence splitting passes, eye of the needle passes).
Comparatively, O'Neill has made twice as many attempted passes in the attacking half, as a fellow DM, but at only 50% accuracy, but made 4 out of 4 up to 63 mins in second half until 63 min mark, still delivering 0 killer passes.
 
LFC said:
ofcourse there is merit - no matter the difference how the game is played you need X players who see the light through the tunnels - how else you going to create getting to the opposing box and shoot f ya.

Well teams are getting forced more in making mistakes how compressed its played today actually.

Football has always been a game of chess, some play quick some take time, as mentioned SerieA from way back - they have always played from their own half but they also had either deep lying ball players or forward mids that could cut defense's wide open - ala Pirlo/Tardelli/Totti/Gattuso defensively helped creative players create......todays methodoligies and coaching is stifling individual gifted players hence its becoming a congested bore fest.
No I don't prefer hoof/long ball game but forward good one touch build up play that keeps turning defense's and opportunities are there - compared to chess, reset reset, back back sideways - I get the play but its ruinning entertaining football and choking individuals.
I hardly watch SPL - never rated it but for the big frim derby, and Ange there.
EPL/Championship/FACup/Caraboa/Italy/Spain/Bundas/CL/Europa/every major NT tournament/NPL/Prem1/grass roots...all Roo games never miss but not all Tildas - W game I struggle with at the best of times.

Answered above what I view.
My last sentence is the money ball, the ball rattling the onion bag !
The wondereful BPO yaddayadda is riverting numbers, the amount of pass's in your own half and possession so riverting, the 1v1's, the contest of 2nd balls - mean poop all IF your haven't created from all that time/work first up getting into the last third what all the possesion is about, how many SHOTS ! and on TARGET ! and GOALS scored <<<<<<<< for that matters MOST full stop.
I'd be curious you stats guys do a summary comparo of our Roos time in opponents half especially the last third and in their box, shot/shots on target/goals compared to other NT's.
Be interesting.
Click to expand...
At the same time, balls played into the opposition pen box, (although weirdly some stats show some teams playing a lot of balls into the opposition pen box that are easily repelled, hence not effective, possibly Colombia against Aus in the first 75 mins?), and shots at goal and shots on target, ultimately with creation of goalscoring chances, are paramount.

I agree there is no use having a lot of ball, if one's opponents are playing more quality balls into the pen box, and creating better and a greater number of scoring chances. Arsene Wenger calls it, 'sterile domination'.

You've made some good points in this post, LFC!

Given all the football you watch, no time for you to do any ironing!
 
Last edited:
Decentric said:
I see some merit in this view, Grazor, but I contend it is more a question of general handling speed and skill on the ball, and quick thinking, that enables some players to pass forwards under pressure, or any direction, more effectively than others.

The point the Dutch KNVB staff coaches Derkson and Schans made, under the keen eye of RobBaan, and an awestruck, Kelly Cross, that the movement off the ball by teammates is paramount to maintain possession and progress the build up forwards. What they hammered home in all countries the KNVB visit around the world, is not to blame the ball carrier for passes failing. To more closely scrutinise the movement of players off the ball ostensibly supporting the ball carrier.

At a much lower level, when I was TD of an NPL club, I watched a game with the club Pres, N, ( with all the money). South Hobart played an Adelaide team, Metrostars?, in a NPL Cup game. On player for SH, who we will call S, ( know him), was constantly getting into good positions to open diagonal passing lanes for the South CBs to play out.

S did it early. He also lacked a bit of pace and was rumoured to be moving on for SH, looking for a club. The club Pres thought the CBs looked good. He couldn't see that midfielder, S, was enabling the CBs to look good, and said S wouldn't even make the NPL team at his club!

The next season, midfielder, S, changed clubs, to one coached by coaching pal, G, from FFA advanced coach ed courses and Nat Conferences. S captained G's team and they went on to make the final of the national NPL Knockout comp. Coach G immediately recognised S's clever off the ball movement, and general game sense, enhancing the team unit.

One point the also really KNVB pushed, which supports your view, Grazor, and others, was at all times to play or move ( run with the ball) the ball forwards to a viable teammate opening a passing lane, with as long a pass as possible if passing forwards.

Neither the off the ball movement, or, play forwards if at all possible, both advocated by the KNVB, has been advanced to the same extent in Football Aus coach ed, despite so much similar content overall.

Another good point you raised, Grazor, is the tiny fraction of a second, that sometimes occurs for an opportunity to play forwards, or make a killer pass.
Click to expand...
I Wonder if what happened was an eager desire to correct a trend in oz to put too much emphasis on the responsibility of the ball carrier and they over corrected?

I agree the execution of an outcome (in this case a progressive pass) can be broken down into components like handling speed, decision making, ability to turn and ability to scan as well as passing range. However, sometimes the individual components dont gel together, much like having all the skills to get goals doesnt necessarily result in a player being a good goal scorer (though in both cases it may not be the players fault). The ability to execute the desirable outcome in a match situation I believe matters as well as the prerequisite skills in order to achieve the outcome

The other thing is what are stats for. One is to correct bias and the other thing that a scout might be interested in is scanning a zillion players to flag ones that are worth watching. So progressive passes are a big green flag you might see in a database and then look at the context to watch a few games and see if they have those coveted skills. Unfortunately if a player has those skills but their team mates are poor at opening passing lanes then they probably get missed, but it isnt easy to pick those players up since no scout can watch every player in the world
 
Decentric said:
I have some final passing stats for the Curacao game with players substituted at half time.

Stats compilation almost always show up things we don't expect.

JS96 is convinced Behich is a bad player. I think he is slightly on the decline, or other players are similar quality.

*Over the years I've been guilty of : overly focusing on Irvine's slightly cumbersome 2 touch passing - when he did everything else very well against Colombia! I should have given it more weighting!

*Hrustic - I've kept saying based on his stats against better teams, he should not be in the Socceroo set up. Even watching him live against Curacao, I observed faults. ADmitteldy, I was looking for them - which is not objective!

Yet his passing stats look very good against Cur! Haven't done his 1v1s yet, but I've criticised H's performances off the ball, whilst lauding his ability on the ball.

Just compiling passing stats I happened to observe;
- Hrustic made a good block high up the pitch on the left flank, preventing a Cur build up.
- He caused a turnover, for Trewin to skilfully read the play, anticipating a timely intercept, and pass to Juric to assist Mabil's goal!
- H played a brilliant cross from the left for Mabil to hit the post.

The block and turnover is unusual for Hrustic. Fair play to him for making them!

Then looking at his passing stats they were impressive for the first 42 mins, until he was injured.

* Hrustic
- made 5 defensive passes at 100% accuracy - all made under pressure in terms of time and space.
- 4 attacking passes at 67% accuracy, with 3 made under pressure in terms of time and space.
Total - 9 out of 11 passes attempted at circa 80% passing accuracy.
Total - 73% were made under time and space pressure.

In an advanced position this is impressive, particularly in defence at 100% passing accuracy made under time and space pressure.

Off the ball, which I won't scrutinise like I will in the second look at the replay stat compilation, I thought Hrustic didn't have the impact that Villupillay had when he replaced him in the second half. This was probably Hrustic's best performance from him since the second last round of Asian WCQs, against the easier teams.

*Herrington - like others, I thought watching live he was worse against Curcacao than Cameroon.
In terms of passing stats:
Defensive passes - 23 made at 100% accuracy. 7 made under time and space pressure.
Attacking passes - 3 made, with 2 mishit, at 33%. 0 made under pressure.
Total - 24 passes at 96% accuracy, with importantly 100% accuracy in defence.
Total - 28% made under pressure - with 7 pressure passes out of 28.

This is quite a lot of work for a CB in 45 mins.

Mishitting passes in the attacking third have little consequence if failing. In the defensive third, or even half, a mishit square pass can be catastrophic. On the ball Herrington was far better than I thought watching live.

Geria replacing Herrington has hit 2 mishit passes in the defensive half, whilst having 100% accuracy in attacking half , probably playing higher up the pitch than Herrington in the 18 mins Geria has played that I've reviewed.



*Metcalfe - played DM, when I thought Popa should have played him at Right WB instead of Trewin. Met is a better ball carrier at speed ( thanks to Jake E for shedding light on this in the Pod), better dribbler, and has attacking vision and craft.

Met was far less busy at DM than against Cameroon, where he had more ball than O'Neill. It reversed against Curacao.
In 45 mins:
- Defensive passes, Met hit 9 at 100%. 7 were made under pressure.
- Attacking passes, he hit 3 at 100% accuracy.
-Total - 10 passes made at 100% accuracy.
Total - 10 passes out of 12 made under pressure at 83%.

Metcalfe maintained the ball very well under pressure. Possibly didn't make any killer passes ( Football Aus jargon name for defence splitting passes, eye of the needle passes).
Comparatively, O'Neill has made twice as many attempted passes in the attacking half, as a fellow DM, but at only 50% accuracy, but made 4 out of 4 up to 63 mins in second half until 63 min mark, still delivering 0 killer passes.
Click to expand...
Metcalf always does more on replay than watching live. Unfortunately like holman its easy to miss his quality

interesting to hear some good news about hrustic. I groaned when I saw him starting. He is finally hitting club form after 4 years of bad form at club level. Maybe we start see him improve for the roos?

I suspect poppa takes just 5 inside forwards with irankunda metcalf and mcgree taking three slots. Hrustic, Mabil and Vellupilay might be fighting with boyle for the 4th and 5th positions. Do you have a ranking?

Younis in the A league and kuol in the czech league as well as silvera are also some dark horse options
 
grazorblade said:
Metcalf always does more on replay than watching live. Unfortunately like holman its easy to miss his quality

interesting to hear some good news about hrustic. I groaned when I saw him starting. He is finally hitting club form after 4 years of bad form at club level. Maybe we start see him improve for the roos?

I suspect poppa takes just 5 inside forwards with irankunda metcalf and mcgree taking three slots. Hrustic, Mabil and Vellupilay might be fighting with boyle for the 4th and 5th positions. Do you have a ranking?

Younis in the A league and kuol in the czech league as well as silvera are also some dark horse options
Click to expand...
Hrustic Roos form is better.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top