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Promotion and Relegation is vital for Football in Australia

HappyGuus said:
football360.com.au

Busting the myths around my dream for a two tiered A-League: Building Blocks, Ep.III

Let me go back to the well on the A1-A2 split idea for the A-League. Don’t worry, I’ll be like a dog with a bone on this one! It was interesting taking in some of the commentary from this column two weeks ago. Comments on YouTube or the Football360 website were overwhelmingly positive –...
football360.com.au football360.com.au
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Nah hes lost me... sorry. Hope his welcoem to Berwick goes well but by the time his club is promoted up the yellow brick road the APL franchises would have had 4-5 decades of protection...

The WHOLE aim of pro/rel isnt just to promote teams its to force the to do better to avoid relegation, Matt doesn't seem to get this and his best frond Vince isnt allowed to explain it to him.

There are 150+ clubs in Australia right now that would have any semblance of ambition in rising to the top of the football pyramid, two closed off leagues doesn't even remotely scratch the itch.

Both seem to think in terms of entertainment and viewership and how "fun" it will be to watch Macarthur play WSW to avoid getting the drop into the .**checks notes.... A2 league.... but the following season they wont have to give a fuck because the cant drop any further????

Its a cop out, they know its a cop out and are trying to sell beads and shiny trinkets to the natives....... NEXT!
 
why is it the limited football jounos around are always presenting scenarios for franchise league @ F360.
 
LFC said:
why is it the limited football jounos around are always presenting scenarios for franchise league @ F360.
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Because they are the ones paying the bills mate ... to be honest I don't blame Vince.. If the APL folds, he isnt going to be able to make money from football anymore.... The sad thing is that his self interest is justified by people who claim he just wants "the good of the game" BULLSHIT he does...
 
Championship is a franchise league as well fyi gents

It's easier for everyone if there is mix of the system instead of a crash and burn again.
 
MoorePark said:
Championship is a franchise league as well fyi gents

It's easier for everyone if there is mix of the system instead of a crash and burn again.
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Who are the clubs paying franchise fees to? The intial 500K was given back.

The only clubs that crash and burn seem to be the APL ones....
 
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Monoethnic Social Club said:
Who are the clubs paying franchise fees to? The intial 500K was given back.

The only clubs that crash and burn seem to be the APL ones....
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The seperate license is what makes it a franchise, a seperate entity.

Except the clubs in 1990-2004? Instead of another crash and burn like the NSL and could be A-league, easier to mix into a similar model like Football360 put out instead of closure and new league etc.
 
Monoethnic Social Club said:
Who are the clubs paying franchise fees to? The intial 500K was given back.

The only clubs that crash and burn seem to be the APL ones....
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And the important thing to remember about the $500k is that it was evidence of financial commitment and capacity to finance a H&A national league, in the form of a bank guarantee.

A 10 team, 18 round home and away league will cost about $1 million in travelling costs, assuming the two additional teams are from anywhere but Perth or further north than the Sunshine Coast (and not from VIC or NSW). The cost for NSW and VIC clubs (given they have more away games in the same city) is about $80k and $120k respectively, and about $150k to $190k for interstate teams, depending on whether the 9th and 10th clubs are from the same city or not.

The reality is, you need clubs who can afford to cover that expense, and the FA would be irresponsible if it didn't ask for evidence. When we get to a full H&A Championship, the reality is that it will include teams that can afford the expense, not simply those that finish first in their respective NPL. The JFA did the same when it formed both the J2 and J3 leagues - it brought in clubs that had associate status (they had the funds, structure, and facilities that met the JFA's criteria for those new leagues), not the best performing teams from the semi-pro JFL. Only after 25 odd years do they finally have relegation to the JFL from J3, but it only occurs when an approved/accredited club finishes 1st or 2nd in the JFL. If that doesn't happen, there's no relegation from J3, regardless of how dominant the JFL league winner was.

It's worth noting that this is basically the same principle across the globe. We don't really see it in action much in Europe because they have so many professional clubs and/or semi-pro clubs pushing to get promoted, and so have the off-field stuff in order before their performances warrant promotion. It happened in France a few years back with Luzenac gaining promotion to Ligue 2 but being denied entry because their ground wasn't up to scratch. Even in England, all clubs have their ground graded every few years to inform clubs what they might need to do to stay in their current league, or what to do if they're seeking promotion to higher levels.
 
MoorePark said:
The seperate license is what makes it a franchise, a seperate entity.

Except the clubs in 1990-2004? Instead of another crash and burn like the NSL and could be A-league, easier to mix into a similar model like Football360 put out instead of closure and new league etc.
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In Japan, clubs are given differing licenses depending on which level criteria they meet. A club may have J3 status, but if it wins the league and doesn't have a J2 license, it can't be promoted. The separate license doesn't make it a franchise - it just governs the highest level a team can play at. This is common across the globe, to stop clubs with a billionaire owner and playing on a cow paddock from playing in the Premier League.

A franchise is something that can be moved and/or on-sold. Even with Sydney Olympic, and Wests APIA to a degree, the separate entity that 'runs' the championship club is just corporate structure. If the (ex?)-President? of Olympic wants to try to move his 'license' to Las Vegas I'd be surprised if FA didn't step in and simply revoke it. The purpose of the NST is to leverage the existing clubs history and fanbase. Given there is no longer any money held by FA, they could very easily cancel the existing license and issue a new one to the club directly, removing the problematic individual from the equation.
 
Monoethnic Social Club said:
Because they are the ones paying the bills mate ... to be honest I don't blame Vince.. If the APL folds, he isnt going to be able to make money from football anymore.... The sad thing is that his self interest is justified by people who claim he just wants "the good of the game" BULLSHIT he does...
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Said it before and I will say it again, isn’t Vince a just a football journalist paid by Nine Fairfax or whatever the company is called? So if the APL folded/A-League went bust, he would still be writing about the Matildas, Socceroos, Euro football, or Aussie football. How does he make money from the APL? What do you want from him? More articles about the NPL?
 
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MoorePark said:
The seperate license is what makes it a franchise, a seperate entity.

Except the clubs in 1990-2004? Instead of another crash and burn like the NSL and could be A-league, easier to mix into a similar model like Football360 put out instead of closure and new league etc.
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But, as far as I know, thats ONLY Sydney Olympic that has a seperat entity.
 
Stu said:
And the important thing to remember about the $500k is that it was evidence of financial commitment and capacity to finance a H&A national league, in the form of a bank guarantee.

A 10 team, 18 round home and away league will cost about $1 million in travelling costs, assuming the two additional teams are from anywhere but Perth or further north than the Sunshine Coast (and not from VIC or NSW). The cost for NSW and VIC clubs (given they have more away games in the same city) is about $80k and $120k respectively, and about $150k to $190k for interstate teams, depending on whether the 9th and 10th clubs are from the same city or not.

The reality is, you need clubs who can afford to cover that expense, and the FA would be irresponsible if it didn't ask for evidence. When we get to a full H&A Championship, the reality is that it will include teams that can afford the expense, not simply those that finish first in their respective NPL. The JFA did the same when it formed both the J2 and J3 leagues - it brought in clubs that had associate status (they had the funds, structure, and facilities that met the JFA's criteria for those new leagues), not the best performing teams from the semi-pro JFL. Only after 25 odd years do they finally have relegation to the JFL from J3, but it only occurs when an approved/accredited club finishes 1st or 2nd in the JFL. If that doesn't happen, there's no relegation from J3, regardless of how dominant the JFL league winner was.

It's worth noting that this is basically the same principle across the globe. We don't really see it in action much in Europe because they have so many professional clubs and/or semi-pro clubs pushing to get promoted, and so have the off-field stuff in order before their performances warrant promotion. It happened in France a few years back with Luzenac gaining promotion to Ligue 2 but being denied entry because their ground wasn't up to scratch. Even in England, all clubs have their ground graded every few years to inform clubs what they might need to do to stay in their current league, or what to do if they're seeking promotion to higher levels.
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No arguments there mate :)
 
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Kitwally said:
How does he make money from the APL? What do you want from him? More articles about the NPL?
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Im not sure this is asked with any sincerity .... If the APL refuses to communicate with Rugari, refuses access to players for interviews, refuses to verify stories ecte ct do you NOT think is ability to write about the Aleague in any capacity will disappear thus reducing one of his many income streams..

Or, to tackle it in another way, do you NOT think that AFL and NRL have paid for "journalists" within their respective influence that publish "news" to fit a narrative? Is the APL an ethical organisation, one that doenst require the story to be "massaged"?

I dont want Rugari to do or say anything, he has revealed his true feelings about my and other migrant Australian football clubs many a time, opinions I personally find revolting. Im not, and never will be, his intended audience. Ill let the whole "Lets split the APL into two divisions and ONLY do pro rel between them" bullshit that Danny Townsend came up with 6-7 years ago get repeated every single time real chance for progress comes up... Its Definitely NOT protectionism its progress right?
 
Monoethnic Social Club said:
Im not sure this is asked with any sincerity .... If the APL refuses to communicate with Rugari, refuses access to players for interviews, refuses to verify stories ecte ct do you NOT think is ability to write about the Aleague in any capacity will disappear thus reducing one of his many income streams..

Or, to tackle it in another way, do you NOT think that AFL and NRL have paid for "journalists" within their respective influence that publish "news" to fit a narrative? Is the APL an ethical organisation, one that doenst require the story to be "massaged"?

I dont want Rugari to do or say anything, he has revealed his true feelings about my and other migrant Australian football clubs many a time, opinions I personally find revolting. Im not, and never will be, his intended audience. Ill let the whole "Lets split the APL into two divisions and ONLY do pro rel between them" bullshit that Danny Townsend came up with 6-7 years ago get repeated every single time real chance for progress comes up... Its Definitely NOT protectionism its progress right?
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So he’s getting bungs from the APL, to write glowing articles about the A-League. And the APL have threatened to remove his “access” if he doesn’t write positive articles about their plastic league. Makes perfect sense…………
 
Kitwally said:
So he’s getting bungs from the APL, to write glowing articles about the A-League. And the APL have threatened to remove his “access” if he doesn’t write positive articles about their plastic league. Makes perfect sense…………
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Took you a while but there you go... its not rocket science. Don't think he is getting any "bungs" from the APL though, they seem to be a little short of change at the moment.
 
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