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Green & Gold FC podcast

theFOOTBALLlover said:
I think a NC is important - we need to have a framework in place of how to teach technical, tactical understanding, fitness and how to lead. It has to be broad enough to teach players to have the technical capabilities to play in numerous systems/ styles. The NC (and the coaching courses) also has to help coaches learn about teaching techniques and leadership styles. I don't think it does a lot of these things and I've done my FA/AFC A Diploma.

I was speaking to a player who went to Germany from an A-league academy. He was talking about one of the things he struggled with in Germany, was he was being asked to play "long balls/ diagonal balls" in behind/ to the opposite winger and he had never been shown the technique/ been asked to do it in Australia. Everything in Australia was about playing short/ playing out from the back as a central defender.

Maybe coaches took the playing out too literally from the courses instead of teaching players when to play through, around or over the opposition depending on the situation.
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The second point about this, after I've already responded, is that one AL academy doesn't extrapolate to all AL academies, FL.

It may be a problem at one AL academy, but may not be the case at all others.

Even in our NPL, one club, Kingborough, that has never had sustained success, featured both left and right backs playing quality diagonal long balls to the wingers on the opposite flank a few seasons back. It was an impressive feature of Kingborough's play.

It was obviously a bigger part of their game plan and tactics than other Tassie NPL clubs and there was an onus on it in their training ground practice.
 
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theFOOTBALLlover said:
I'm currently coaching in the NPL NSW Men's First Grade space and a sports school. I've started watching A-League Men and Women again. Curious about the level and supporting players I coach/ have coached, not about the clubs.

I listened to the Podcast today. I enjoyed it. I started the courses around 2013 with Oscar Gonzalez. I did my A Diploma two years ago with Ian Crook and Ron Smith.

Hoping to do my Pro Diploma soon but, as you know, it is difficult to get in.
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I'm a bit worried about this.

Ian Crook and Ron Smith are part of old soccer, under Soccer Australia, pre 2006.

When Ron ( nice bloke) was previous TD under Soccer Australia, the courses presented and devised by him were in all honesty absolute rubbish ( I did them) compared to the post 2007/8 Baan/Berger/Abrams era.

Ron saw no need to go to Europe and extrapolate world class practices to Aus derived from the world powerhouses, like Baan/Berger did. Then implement them nationwide - like Berger did in his TD tenure. If we had continued with the pre 2005 coach education dross imparted by Soccer Aus we would never have qualified for any World Cups since.

IMO opinion we need a new generation of younger Aus coaches conducting coach education instead of Crook and Smith. The younger coaches have been inculcated in the new way of doing things. I have reservations about Kelly Cross still being at SFC too. He is also old soccer. Look at the likes of Darren Davies, Phil Moss, David Zdrilic, Alex Brosque, Craig Foster, et al, for the SFC TD role.

It was problematic for Pim RIP, Versleijen, Baan and Berger coaching domestic Aus players, youth to senior, because they had such a low knowledge base in terms of tactics and team structural knowledge.

Some years post his Socceroo tenure, Pim was a guest on a few football programs/panels in Aus. Pim was gobsmacked how much the AL had improved tactically. His previous criticism about the open game manifest in the AL, with far too much distance between the lines, had disappeared.

Why?

The domestic Aussie Skip AL coaches had been inculcated in the new European based powerhouse methodology. They had passed this on to their AL players. Tactically, players can improve very quickly as seniors. Conversely, technique takes years to improve and needs to be done when players are very young. Technique acquisition is a long slow process.

Anthony Alexander, one of Aus's NC writers, whose tutelage I was under for a year, enunciated in a SAP special coach education course for rep/elite coaches, circa 2013/4, that Asian teams were way ahead of Aus technically, but at that stage were way behind Aus tactically.

AA stated that if the Asian teams caught up to Aus tactically they would thrash us. The hope was that whilst we had the jump tactically, with the NC, hopefully over the long term, the technique of our Aus players would catch up to Asian teams.

We are starting to see it now with the players aged 23/4 who have had 10 years of the SAP/NC from the right age.

At the same time, Asian teams have decidedly improved tactically, which is why it was so tough for Aus to qualify for this WC.
 
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Pasquali said:

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Haven't heard much of the Asian ACL campaign yet on this Podcast.

Some interesting points made regarding the circumstances of some of the clubs not releasing players for the u23 Asian Cup. Also, interesting to hear about a few u23 players I didn't know much about.

Ahmed, although not speaking much, makes some astute football points.

In the Underage Aus team thread in the Aus football section, there was an informative article posted by Grazor from a journo called David (?) Weiner providing more info on the u23 Asian Cup squad, and, who was and wasn't released.

At the start of this Podcast Alex thanked Grazor for all the work he has done for the Podcasts. I endorse Alex's comment, and, would like to add that it isn't just for the G and G podcast, but for the forum in general that Grazor does a lot. We are very lucky to have him!

THANKS, GRAZOR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Decentric said:
Haven't heard much of the Asian ACL campaign yet on this Podcast.

Some interesting points made regarding the circumstances of some of the clubs not releasing players for the u23 Asian Cup. Also, interesting to hear about a few u23 players I didn't know much about.

Ahmed, although not speaking much, makes some astute football points.

In the Underage Aus team thread in the Aus football section, there was an informative article posted by Grazor from a journo called David (?) Weiner providing more info on the u23 Asian Cup squad, and, who was and wasn't released.

At the start of this Podcast Alex thanked Grazor for all the work he has done for the Podcasts. I endorse Alex's comment, and, would like to add that it isn't just for the G and G podcast, but for the forum in general that Grazor does a lot. We are very lucky to have him!

THANKS, GRAZOR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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thanks! love this place :) and thanks @Pasquali :)
 
Decentric said:
I'm a bit worried about this.

Ian Crook and Ron Smith are part of old soccer, under Soccer Australia, pre 2006.

When Ron ( nice bloke) was previous TD under Soccer Australia, the courses presented and devised by him were in all honesty absolute rubbish ( I did them) compared to the post 2007/8 Baan/Berger/Abrams era.

Ron saw no need to go to Europe and extrapolate world class practices to Aus derived from the world powerhouses, like Baan/Berger did. Then implement them nationwide - like Berger did in his TD tenure. If we had continued with the pre 2005 coach education dross imparted by Soccer Aus we would never have qualified for any World Cups since.

IMO opinion we need a new generation of younger Aus coaches conducting coach education instead of Crook and Smith. The younger coaches have been inculcated in the new way of doing things. I have reservations about Kelly Cross still being at SFC too. He is also old soccer. Look at the likes of Darren Davies, Phil Moss, David Zdrilic, Alex Brosque, Craig Foster, et al, for the SFC TD role.

It was problematic for Pim RIP, Versleijen, Baan and Berger coaching domestic Aus players, youth to senior, because they had such a low knowledge base in terms of tactics and team structural knowledge.

Some years post his Socceroo tenure, Pim was a guest on a few football programs/panels in Aus. Pim was gobsmacked how much the AL had improved tactically. His previous criticism about the open game manifest in the AL, with far too much distance between the lines, had disappeared.

Why?

The domestic Aussie Skip AL coaches had been inculcated in the new European based powerhouse methodology. They had passed this on to their AL players. Tactically, players can improve very quickly as seniors. Conversely, technique takes years to improve and needs to be done when players are very young. Technique acquisition is a long slow process.

Anthony Alexander, one of Aus's NC writers, whose tutelage I was under for a year, enunciated in a SAP special coach education course for rep/elite coaches, circa 2013/4, that Asian teams were way ahead of Aus technically, but at that stage were way behind Aus tactically.

AA stated that if the Asian teams caught up to Aus tactically they would thrash us. The hope was that whilst we had the jump tactically, with the NC, hopefully over the long term, the technique of our Aus players would catch up to Asian teams.

We are starting to see it now with the players aged 23/4 who have had 10 years of the SAP/NC from the right age.

At the same time, Asian teams have decidedly improved tactically, which is why it was so tough for Aus to qualify for this WC.
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Can you give me a TL,DR version of this epistle please.
 
Keeper66 said:
Can you give me a TL,DR version of this epistle please.
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My understanding is that the coaching education was very difficult to access and little information in the late nsl/early a league era. Little of the knowledge from the ais and top nsl clubs made it out of those circles. In europe there was a revolution in coaching and how to teach technique using small sided games in a set of coaching courses available to everyone. Immediately after the golden generation we had also gone to an extreme emphasis on physical training, so this was a sharp corrective. We also tried to have a unified philosophy of how to play (similar to what klinsman tried to do in the usa) but this was during a time when the game was deeply disunified and grassroots was full of people who expressed their culture through their style of play
there are a lot of figures associated with the old and new as well and the divide still seems to get bitter and personal at times

The figure I'm most familiar with is Ron Smith who was formerly at the AIS. His twitter feed emphasises the need to not overemphasize "wholistic training" which is training that teaches a skill in a match realistic environment and emphasizes more "isolated training" which means teaching a skill in isolation before you go to a match realistic situation. Of course, that tells me little about his competence or broader knowledge and philosophy. There are a lot of figures that are hard to keep track of tbh
 
theFOOTBALLlover said:
I'm currently coaching in the NPL NSW Men's First Grade space and a sports school. I've started watching A-League Men and Women again. Curious about the level and supporting players I coach/ have coached, not about the clubs.

I listened to the Podcast today. I enjoyed it. I started the courses around 2013 with Oscar Gonzalez. I did my A Diploma two years ago with Ian Crook and Ron Smith.

Hoping to do my Pro Diploma soon but, as you know, it is difficult to get in.
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Not sure if this was in the edited Pod version or not, but Danny said that only 12 Aussies per year are accepted for the Pro licence - and it costs $15 000! I couldn't believe the cost?

We ended up going to 2am in the morning AEST, to fit in with other people in different time zones. It was a bit hazy what was discussed in the end if it wasn't on the Pod. Danny also stated these was some regulation of keeping Aus numbers down to only 12 per year as to who accessed the Pro Licence.

The cost is astronomical. Also, Danny said he was precluded from the Pro Licence by not being a current AL pro coach. He is paid by a NPL club, Metrostars. IMO the more coaches who get access to a Pro Licence the better. Also, IMO Football Aus restricting coaches gaining accreditation and knowledge, is a flawed practice.

IMO opinion we need more assessors for coaching courses. A while back the ACT seemed to have the highest percentage of coaches being accredited at advanced level - semi-pro and pro coaching.

Danny also alluded to access for info being difficult from Football Aus.

In the past coaches had to pay to access info for Football Fed Aus. I think it was ridiculous!

In the 442 Performance Section, I was able to send via email a lot of FFA coaching methodology to coaches who wanted the info. The Tas FFA Tech Dir at the time, said I couldn't publicly post FFA training ground practice and modules on the forum, but I could send it via email. So I sent training ground practice out to about 30 odd coaches who sent me their email addresses.

A few responded later and said how useful it was on the training track. IMO the national football federation of any country should be making access to coaching methodology as easy as possible. The more coaching knowledge out there, the better.
 
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grazorblade said:
the heat in this is depressing to read, think most people who argue online would get along in person

As I said before, I do agree that it should be clubs driving the innovation. Having said that, I wonder how much people talk past other. When people say they are agains the national curriculum, I think a lot of people hear

1) the massive change from a fitness bootcamp where you rarely see a ball to small sided games compared to what i experienced as a kid shouldn't have happened (to be fair that was in QLD, things were probabably very different for nsl club juniors)
2) There shouldn't be c,b,a and pro liscences that we have like in every other country
3) there shouldn't have been an attempt to make basic coaching knowledge more widespread (particularly for us in rural areas)

of course I know that's not what many people's objections to the ntc was, but I do think it's important to know where some people in the football community are coming from
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Not at all.. Having opposing views on something is a part of life however respect is earned NOT expected.. You and I have vastly disparate views on football in many respects yet I value your opinion as I hope, in some instances, you can accept mine..

This garbage attempt by some to gatekeep who can and cannot comment on football issues has to stop. I can see why certain posters despise him with a passion.. I don't. I just pity the narcissism.
 
Decentric said:
Not sure if this was in the edited Pod version or not, but Danny said that only 12 Aussies per year are accepted for the Pro licence - and it costs $15 000! I couldn't believe the cost?

We ended up going to 2am in the morning AEST, to fit in with other people in different time zones. It was a bit hazy what was discussed in the end if it wasn't on the Pod. Danny also stated these was some regulation of keeping Aus numbers down to only 12 per year as to who accessed the Pro Licence.

The cost is astronomical. Also, Danny said he was precluded from the Pro Licence by not being a current AL pro coach. He is paid by a NPL club, Metrostars. IMO the more coaches who get access to a pro Licence the better. Also, IMO Football Aus restricting coaches gaining accreditation and knowledge, is a flawed practice.

IMO opinion we need more assessors for coaching courses. A while back the ACT seemed to have to the highest percentage of coaches being accredited at advanced level - semi-pro and pro coaching.

Danny also alluded to access for info being difficult from Football Aus.

In the past coaches had to pay to access info for Football Fed Aus. I think it was ridiculous!

In the 442 Performance Section, I was able to send via email a lot of FFA coaching methodology to coaches who wanted the info. The Tas FFA Tech Dir at the time, said I couldn't publicly post FFA training ground practice and modules on the forum, but I could send it via email. So I sent training ground practice out to about 30 odd coaches who sent me their email addresses.

A few responded later and said how useful it was on the training track. IMO the national football federation of any country should be making access to coaching methodology as easy as possible. The more coaching knowledge out there, the better.
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I'm not sure if it is limited to just 12 per year but it is harder to get into. You have to apply and be selected into the course. The cost is around $12 500. I've looked into it. The NPL Head Coach that I'm working with has a Pro License so it is possible to get it at that level. I just need to be patient.
 
Monoethnic Social Club said:
Not at all.. Having opposing views on something is a part of life however respect is earned NOT expected.. You and I have vastly disparate views on football in many respects yet I value your opinion as I hope, in some instances, you can accept mine..

This garbage attempt by some to gatekeep who can and cannot comment on football issues has to stop. I can see why certain posters despise him with a passion.. I don't. I just pity the narcissism.
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i definitely value your views, but yeah I guess i'll let you two sort it out...
 
Decentric said:
I'm a bit worried about this.

Ian Crook and Ron Smith are part of old soccer, under Soccer Australia, pre 2006.

When Ron ( nice bloke) was previous TD under Soccer Australia, the courses presented and devised by him were in all honesty absolute rubbish ( I did them) compared to the post 2007/8 Baan/Berger/Abrams era.

Ron saw no need to go to Europe and extrapolate world class practices to Aus derived from the world powerhouses, like Baan/Berger did. Then implement them nationwide - like Berger did in his TD tenure. If we had continued with the pre 2005 coach education dross imparted by Soccer Aus we would never have qualified for any World Cups since.

IMO opinion we need a new generation of younger Aus coaches conducting coach education instead of Crook and Smith. The younger coaches have been inculcated in the new way of doing things. I have reservations about Kelly Cross still being at SFC too. He is also old soccer. Look at the likes of Darren Davies, Phil Moss, David Zdrilic, Alex Brosque, Craig Foster, et al, for the SFC TD role.

It was problematic for Pim RIP, Versleijen, Baan and Berger coaching domestic Aus players, youth to senior, because they had such a low knowledge base in terms of tactics and team structural knowledge.

Some years post his Socceroo tenure, Pim was a guest on a few football programs/panels in Aus. Pim was gobsmacked how much the AL had improved tactically. His previous criticism about the open game manifest in the AL, with far too much distance between the lines, had disappeared.

Why?

AL coThe domestic Aussie Skip aches had been inculcated in the new European based powerhouse methodology. They had passed this on to their AL players. Tactically, players can improve very quickly as seniors. Conversely, technique takes years to improve and needs to be done when players are very young. Technique acquisition is a long slow process.

Anthony Alexander, one of Aus's NC writers, whose tutelage I was under for a year, enunciated in a SAP special coach education course for rep/elite coaches, circa 2013/4, that Asian teams were way ahead of Aus technically, but at that stage were way behind Aus tactically.

AA stated that if the Asian teams caught up to Aus tactically they would thrash us. The hope was that whilst we had the jump tactically, with the NC, hopefully over the long term, the technique of our Aus players would catch up to Asian teams.

We are starting to see it now with the players aged 23/4 who have had 10 years of the SAP/NC from the right age.

At the same time, Asian teams have decidedly improved tactically, which is why it was so tough for Aus to qualify for this WC.
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What's a "domestic Aussie Skip AL coach"?
Is that some sort of racist gibe?
 
Pasquali said:

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Great episode @grazorblade ... Interesting to to hear Stratis comments around other clubs being enthusiastic about the opportunities this tournament will bring them... and hopefully us.

Paul is a bit of a celebrity at Lakeside and I have had the very same chat you had with him around the prospect of South being an Aleague or NSD club... I agree with him that, whilst it MAY be on the cards for an investor to come along and "use" our club as a brand to buy into the Aleague that entity will no longer be the club we all love and follow... Sure many will follow but also many will not.... NSD with full pro/rell down to State leaguyes is the way forward... by hook or by crook... in a few generations time when/if that proves successful THEN we can look at linking the razzle dazzle Aleague to the rest of Australia :)
 
Monoethnic Social Club said:
Great episode @grazorblade ... Interesting to to hear Stratis comments around other clubs being enthusiastic about the opportunities this tournament will bring them... and hopefully us.

Paul is a bit of a celebrity at Lakeside and I have had the very same chat you had with him around the prospect of South being an Aleague or NSD club... I agree with him that, whilst it MAY be on the cards for an investor to come along and "use" our club as a brand to buy into the Aleague that entity will no longer be the club we all love and follow... Sure many will follow but also many will not.... NSD with full pro/rell down to State leaguyes is the way forward... by hook or by crook... in a few generations time when/if that proves successful THEN we can look at linking the razzle dazzle Aleague to the rest of Australia :)
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One thing that Paul mentioned was his belief that the distance (the financial distance if nothing else) between the A League and the rest of Australia is greater than ever.

Yet, the A League is perhaps in an increasingly WORSE state than even the last few years.

Doesn't this 'fact' emphasise the point of view of many of us that this closed system in place is making things worse ... FOR EVERYONE???!!!
 
theFOOTBALLlover said:
I think a NC is important - we need to have a framework in place of how to teach technical, tactical understanding, fitness and how to lead. It has to be broad enough to teach players to have the technical capabilities to play in numerous systems/ styles. The NC (and the coaching courses) also has to help coaches learn about teaching techniques and leadership styles. I don't think it does a lot of these things and I've done my FA/AFC A Diploma.

I was speaking to a player who went to Germany from an A-league academy. He was talking about one of the things he struggled with in Germany, was he was being asked to play "long balls/ diagonal balls" in behind/ to the opposite winger and he had never been shown the technique/ been asked to do it in Australia. Everything in Australia was about playing short/ playing out from the back as a central defender.

Maybe coaches took the playing out too literally from the courses instead of teaching players when to play through, around or over the opposition depending on the situation.
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FWIW, I would suggest it’s crucial for any semblance of a curriculum prior to ages 8-10(as I think Mono alluded to earlier) to emphasise developing as high a level of technical-ability w/the feet as possible(this includes strengthening a player’s weak-foot too), and the continued use of small-sided games until graduating to full 11v11.

Upon say, reaching 11yo then I suppose an individual player’s development can probably become a little more laissez-faire and not so slavishly-beholden to a single particular methodology..maybe - or not?

I could be totally wrong either way, but from the outside looking in that’s the vibe I get about it all.
 
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Decentric said:
TL, DR meaning?
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“Too long, didn’t read”

Decentric said:
In the 442 Performance Section, I was able to send via email a lot of FFA coaching methodology to coaches who wanted the info. The Tas FFA Tech Dir at the time, said I couldn't publicly post FFA training ground practice and modules on the forum, but I could send it via email. So I sent training ground practice out to about 30 odd coaches who sent me their email addresses.

A few responded later and said how useful it was on the training track. IMO the national football federation of any country should be making access to coaching methodology as easy as possible. The more coaching knowledge out there, the better.
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Yeah, I remember that cloud-folder someone linked to on the Performance section of the prev. forum back in 2011; it was a proper treasure-trove of drills/instructions, no doubt..until the entire cloud got wiped😔

I can only hope that copies of every single piece of material on there were disseminated to as many clubs around the country before then🙏🏼 Even just spam-emailing them would’ve been the prudent thing to do..!
 
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