Bulldogs Debate Page

[Hounddog]

Actually my idea is Curran, Tood, Latu, Hayes or Kiks starting at lock, Burton or Woods on the bench. With Burton playing a solid 40-50 mins at lock.

With Critter extending in interested in whether he will drop some weight and move to fullback.

Burton could start a 5/8 early in the season, but mostly play as a centre / lock. He can still kick from centre.

Woods has a good kicking game including dangerous short kicks.

Critter might not be fast, but he is a smart player who reads the game well and takes good options in attack and defence.

Anyone who watched any reserve grade would have noticed Spinks making a lot of linebreaks as left edge backrow and scoring long range trys, some of them off passes from Woods.

Kiks starting at lock and Burton/Tia off the bench is maximum attacking impact IMO.

 

[Hounddog]

If Cirro is serious about improving the attack Salmon will not be starting at lock.

Salmon isn’t as bad as we think he is, but our eyes and the stats don't lie.

I hope that we are going to become a better attacking side, that will give us more chance of beating the better teams. Also a few easy wins against weaker sides and a better F/A.

It will be a more enjoyable and entertaining style for fans to watch and less frustrating.

If it does create some issues in defence, I back Cirro to fix that.

IMO this is the style that Wayne Bennett coaches, fill the side with natural attacking players and let them play. Coach the defence and have minimum standards for fitness, work rate, execution and defensive technique.

It is easier to coach the defence, mistakes are usually very obvious. What caused the defender to make the mistake, less obvious.

 

[Marki]

Burton to lock has more upside than almost any other player movement in our team.

Our lock plays first receiver and either passes or runs. But a kicking option there would improve our unpredictability. He suits that position perfectly. Better than Salmon or Mann potentially.

He does, but his pass selection is horrid and he doesnt have the defensive resolve to play that position.

Hayward and Mann are the best at that position mainly as they can play eyes up footy better. Both Salmon and Burton are both pre-meditated. Burton has higher skill set than Salmon but Salmon is far superior in defence (both fitness-wise) and defensive smarts.

Burton is proving to be a good 14 who can cover many positions, but is a specialist at none.

We are overpaying him as we made him our dominant half, but his next contract should reflect his true worth as a rugby league player.

 

[Marki]

If Cirro is serious about improving the attack Salmon will not be starting at lock.

Salmon isn’t as bad as we think he is, but our eyes and the stats don't lie.

I hope that we are going to become a better attacking side, that will give us more chance of beating the better teams. Also a few easy wins against weaker sides and a better F/A.

It will be a more enjoyable and entertaining style for fans to watch and less frustrating.

If it does create some issues in defence, I back Cirro to fix that.

IMO this is the style that Wayne Bennett coaches, fill the side with natural attacking players and let them play. Coach the defence and have minimum standards for fitness, work rate, execution and defensive technique.

It is easier to coach the defence, mistakes are usually very obvious. What caused the defender to make the mistake, less obvious.

Although i dont mind Salmon at the start of games, you are right in that to improve the attack, we probably need to move on to more of an attacking weapon.

I see you've mentioned Kikau at lock afew times. Im not sure he'll be as effective as he in on the edge and i question his fitness.

If we did play Kikau at 13, i think CC would have to reconsider his interchange strategy. At the moment, he usually relies on 80mins from both Preston and Kikau and uses all interchanges in the forwards or with hooker rotation.

Unless the replacement left edge back rower is also an 80min player, he'll have to rethink the interchanges.

 

[Hounddog]

Although i dont mind Salmon at the start of games, you are right in that to improve the attack, we probably need to move on to more of an attacking weapon.

I see you've mentioned Kikau at lock afew times. Im not sure he'll be as effective as he in on the edge and i question his fitness.

If we did play Kikau at 13, i think CC would have to reconsider his interchange strategy. At the moment, he usually relies on 80mins from both Preston and Kikau and uses all interchanges in the forwards or with hooker rotation.

Unless the replacement left edge back rower is also an 80min player, he'll have to rethink the interchanges.

It is based in the form of Spinks in reserve grade and also on the way Kikau defends. He likes to get involved but sometimes gets committed early. In the middle players getting committed is less of a problem.

Spinks plays 80 minutes in reserve grade.

Kikau might be very effective playing outside Woods. But I think he has the passing, size and offloading ability to be a handful in the middle.

In relation to fitness that is sort of related to Kikau going all in in defence. He makes a lot of repeat efforts and he covers a lot of ground, often he ends up making tackles in the middle. The advantage of playing in the middle is he can get a rest after 20 minutes.

I just think that we need to rejig our attack and show the opposition team something different at some stage next season. Also think ahead about combinations that we want to build over the next 5 years.

 

[Hounddog]

I am only suggesting big changes because Woods and Thompson are coming into the side. Hayward is probably starting the season at hooker and we have a few young guys who might be ready for NRL.

Our week 1 semi loss to the Storm was the best guide, we were unlucky to lose, yes the Storm were clunky, but we were not far off a win and I can't fault the effort from any of our players.

That is why I am optimistic that a few team changes might turn us into a genuine premiership contender. The positions are halfback, lock and fullback in attack. Edge defence around half/backrower both sides of the field, losing the middle collisions due to a lack of size sometimes.

More attack will help both of our defensive issues and allow us to win games where we have a few lapses in defence.

Thompson is part of a bigger starting pack, but I would also like to see more size and impact at lock. More size helps us in attack and defence especially at the start of games.

More presence in the middle and winning the ruck will take the pressure off our edge defence.

It is important that the half / secondrower / centre firm good combinations in attack and defence on both the right and left sides.
Right seems to be Galvin / Preston / Xerri?

I would like to see replacement halves / secondrowers and centres that mean players rarely need to swap sides. That is first and second choice both sides of the field in 3 positions.

 

[Zoz2025]

What a season from the Broncos. They had grit and determination to win this year : Madge a great coach . Walsh unbelievable performance. Maybe Galvo can be the next Walsh or Munster..

 

[Hounddog]

Galvin is more like the next Munster.

What the GF showed is a team needs to be able to attack and defend to win a comp and one mistake at a bad time can lose it.

Drop by big Tui over the try line cost the Storm.

Stopping Walsh when he is on is no easy task. Against the Broncos, a team needs to defend Walsh to win.

 

[Hounddog]

Bryenton might be the closest FB we can get to Walsh unless Dykes works out.

Becoming a team that wins the GF is a different journey for us, we can't be a carbon copy of the Broncos, Storm or Panthers.

While the GF was a high standard, and entertaining, both sides made errors and some of the trys were fairly soft .

I hope that we win a GF soon, it was 19 years for the Broncos and they often have more talent than we do. 21 years for us is the, longest gap in my time following the club.

It only took 7 years to win the first comp in 1980. And the longest gap was 1995-2004, 9 years. We also haven't been in a GF since 2014, 11 years.

I think that we are on the right track, and patience is part of getting there.

 

[Marki]

Galvin is more like the next Munster.

What the GF showed is a team needs to be able to attack and defend to win a comp and one mistake at a bad time can lose it.

Drop by big Tui over the try line cost the Storm.

Stopping Walsh when he is on is no easy task. Against the Broncos, a team needs to defend Walsh to win.

It was a huge mistake by Tui to drop that, but Storm lost that GF with the inability of their wingers to link with their key spine players.

Warbrick in particular was poor. Had numerous chances on the right especially when Karapani went off with 13mins to go.

Incredible performance by Walsh (and Mam) to stop Melb attack on that side.

The last play by Katoa needed him to dummy as Walsh almost always goes for the pass.

Very gritty win by Broncos given they lost AR, Hunt and Karapani.

 

[Marki]

Bryenton might be the closest FB we can get to Walsh unless Dykes works out.

Becoming a team that wins the GF is a different journey for us, we can't be a carbon copy of the Broncos, Storm or Panthers.

While the GF was a high standard, and entertaining, both sides made errors and some of the trys were fairly soft .

I hope that we win a GF soon, it was 19 years for the Broncos and they often have more talent than we do. 21 years for us is the, longest gap in my time following the club.

It only took 7 years to win the first comp in 1980. And the longest gap was 1995-2004, 9 years. We also haven't been in a GF since 2014, 11 years.

I think that we are on the right track, and patience is part of getting there.

Cant remember whether i was watching a rugby league or AFL talkback show, but the narrative was that if it takes you more than 12 or so years to win a premiership in this day and age of Salary caps, Drafts, etc, its not really a sensational achievement.

And i must agree.

You'd have to be making some serious poor recruitment/retention calls and have your head in the sand to not rise again and become contender in 10years.

The NRL is worse in this than AFL as there is no draft and the salary cap floor, screws you even more by rewarding mediocrity.

 

[Hounddog]

Cant remember whether i was watching a rugby league or AFL talkback show, but the narrative was that if it takes you more than 12 or so years to win a premiership in this day and age of Salary caps, Drafts, etc, its not really a sensational achievement.

And i must agree.

You'd have to be making some serious poor recruitment/retention calls and have your head in the sand to not rise again and become contender in 10years.

The NRL is worse in this than AFL as there is no draft and the salary cap floor, screws you even more by rewarding mediocrity.

I think that the Dogs club got a lot wrong 2015-2023.

And a fair bit wrong 1999-2014.

The great team that won the GF in 2004 was in part a hangover from more successful eras.

The fact that we only won one comp with all of those talented players and the fact that we let Thurston go speaks volumes.

I didn't even find the apparent success 2012-2014 that convincing mostly because our halves were not fully convincing and we were not developing many more quality players.

Players like Barba, Idris Jackson and Finucanne were part of the last batch of really good players we developed. Thurston was the last great half, Asotasi the last great middle forward.

Get scouting, junior development, recruitment and retention plus coaching badly wrong it is hard to have sustained success. That was the story of the Dogs 2005-2022.

It is possible to paper over that with some quick fix signings for a season or 2, but often the club ends up back at ground zero.

 

[Hounddog]

Coaching wise, Cirro is similar enough to Madge, Bellamy, Robinson, Cleary, Sticky, Bennett and Fitzgibbon to win a comp.

Cleary might have more tactical smarts and Sticky might have more ability to motivate players.

With enough talent all of these coaches can win, other coaches might have the ability to win with talent.

While we have the coach, we don't yet have the team, not in 2025.

2026 might be a step forward, or it might be a short step backwards while we rejig the attack and young players get used to NRL.

I am glad that we have locked Gus, Cirro and Critter up long term because we are working on a plan for sustained success.

What sustained success looks like is a typical Dogs season from the past, making the 8 most years and good enough to win it if things go our way.

We are not easily going to be able to find a player as good as Walsh. The best way to counter that is 17 talented, fit, hard working players, all working together.

 

[Hounddog]

Even the Roosters no longer attempt simply to buy success.

Yes a quality player is in demand from all clubs, especially a proven spine player.

Gus is doing a good job of signing and retaining quality young players like Woods and Bryenton.

No one expects us to sign Cleary and Walsh, or even Hass and Grant.

 

[Hounddog]

Given the amount of talent that we had and the amount of luck, I rate the 2025 season a pass mark.

Bad luck was mostly in the form of injuries and suspensions.

But regardless, i doubt that we had the talent to go much further than we did.

A few different coaching decisions might have won us 1-2 more regular season games, but that could be wishful thinking.

Th only real slice of luck that we had was signing Galvin and that had very little impact on 2025 results, pluses and minuses tended to cancel out.

 

[Hounddog]

Nick O'Meley Orge's son fullback for Burleigh Bears, train and trial with the Dogs..,

I saw the name on the team sheet, but I couldn't imagine Ogre's son playing fullback.

Overall plenty of effort from O'Meley in a beaten side, but he didn't do anything outstanding in attack. Did save a couple of tries in defence, and caught the ball well.

 

[Zoz2025]

Coaching wise, Cirro is similar enough to Madge, Bellamy, Robinson, Cleary, Sticky, Bennett and Fitzgibbon to win a comp.

Cleary might have more tactical smarts and Sticky might have more ability to motivate players.

With enough talent all of these coaches can win, other coaches might have the ability to win with talent.

While we have the coach, we don't yet have the team, not in 2025.

2026 might be a step forward, or it might be a short step backwards while we rejig the attack and young players get used to NRL.

I am glad that we have locked Gus, Cirro and Critter up long term because we are working on a plan for sustained success.

What sustained success looks like is a typical Dogs season from the past, making the 8 most years and good enough to win it if things go our way.

We are not easily going to be able to find a player as good as Walsh. The best way to counter that is 17 talented, fit, hard working players, all working together.

Cirro on the right path I will admit I was critical of him but his first year and second year he's was learning the rope himself as a first grade coach..
to get the team into the top four this year and not many people even supporters thought we could do it was it was a great achievement. The next step now is to win a semi-final game had to get us into the GF.
We definitely need some big forwards. I think the days of the smaller pack isn't going work now.

 

[Hounddog]

It will be interesting to see how our side sets up in 2026.

If we want to improve the attack, more size in the forwards helps.

The fact that we signed Thompson shows that the club knows the importance of a dominant starting prop with size.

Latu has played NRL yet. If he was staying at the Dragons and was injury free, he would have a run in the NRL, but the Dragons had a lot of middles injured

We haven't signed any other middles in spite of players llike NAS, and Reg going to ESL and Kobe Herrington going to Manly.

Hughes and DSF csn do a similar job to NAS and Reg. Curran, Todd, Hayes and Hopoi could play a role similar.to Herrington.

We need a 14 on the bench to cover half and hooker, not doing that would be crazy.

We have had Mann on the bench because we played with a Salmon/ Mann lock rotation with a lock playing as a half. When we had Sexton and Burton in the halves and we didn't have a big prop capable of playing big minutes, I understand why we played that style.

Thompson at starting prop with Woods and Gavin in the halves is potentially a different proposition. Woods and Gavin are high involvement on the ball players.

If we simply play the 2025 style with Thompson at the prop, we will be better. Thompson at prop, Woods and Gavin in the halves, Curran, Todd, or Hayes starting at lock is a different proposition,

I am not sure what we will do, but starting the season closer to the 2025 style and lineup wouldn't be a surprise. Evolving over the season into a different attacking style would not be a surprise.

 

[Marki]

Welfare check on my man Dman.....

 

[Hounddog]

Welfare check on my man Dman.....

Unfortunately Dman hasn't posted here for a while.

I am hoping to keep the tradition alive long enough for new posters to join, or ex-posters to come back.