Welcome!

By registering with us, you'll be able to discuss, share and private message with other members of our community.

Sign Up Now!

Big Ange thread

Not sure how going three at the back for the Socceroos nearly 10 years ago is connected in anyway to Forest playing three at the back for half an hour yesterday morning.
The following is provided for your learning. It explains why on this recent Europa Cup game against Midtjylland on 2 October 2025, Ange's Nottingham had more possession and shots on goal, but why Notthingham leaked goals, as per the story at Tottenham. Thus, you can appreciate the stupidity of Ange using a back 3 when one of his backs, Murillo, was just coming back from injury, and got re-injured in the game after less than half an hour of play. As you recall from Ange's time at Tottenham, his formations require great athleticism from his back players - thus Ange having TWO seasons at Tottenham ravaged by injuries.


"In association football tactics, having 3 defenders at the back line is generally regarded as a formation that can be more attacking but also leaves the defense thinner and potentially weaker."

"A formation with three central defenders, such as the 3-4-3, often includes wing-backs (wide midfielders) who push high up the pitch to provide attacking width and support offensive plays. This allows the team to have more players involved in offense, often making the formation more aggressive and dynamic in attack. The wing-backs and midfielders can advance to overload wide areas and create more scoring opportunities. This formation enables fluid positional changes and can stretch the opposition defense by focusing on wide areas."

"However, having only three defenders inherently leaves the back line thinner compared to a four-defender setup. The three defenders, especially the wide center-backs, often have larger spaces to cover and may face more one-on-one defending situations. This can leave the team vulnerable to fast counter-attacks and overloads in the wide areas if the wing-backs are caught too far forward. The formation demands significant defensive discipline and stamina from wing-backs and midfielders to balance offensive support with defensive cover. Defensive lapses can be costly if the back three is stretched or caught out of position."

"Thus, the tactical trade-off with three defenders at the back is gaining attacking flexibility and width but potentially sacrificing defensive solidity and coverage. Teams using this system must manage the balance carefully to avoid leaving themselves exposed."

"Based on analysis of Premier League data and expert tactical reviews, using a back three formation has indeed been successful for certain teams, but its success largely depends on how it is implemented rather than the mere fact of using three defenders."

"Chelsea's 2016-17 Premier League title under Antonio Conte is one of the most prominent examples of a successful back three system. Conte switched to a 3-4-3 formation after an initial rough start to the season, and the team lost just three of 26 games in this setup, which was pivotal in their title run. The back three provided defensive solidity and allowed wing-backs to push forward and create attacking width, contributing to a strong balance of attack and defense."

"Manchester City, under Pep Guardiola, has also used variations of a back three effectively. Their approach often emphasizes possession and pressing, using the back three alongside an attacking midfield setup to dominate the game. This helped them maintain both defensive strength and offensive potency, exemplified by their very low goals conceded and high ball control rates with this system."

"The popularity of back three formations in the Premier League rose steadily over several seasons, peaking around 28-30% of games in some years but has recently seen some decline back to about 18% in 2024/25. Many teams experiment with three-center-back setups to exploit wing-backs' attacking roles while maintaining a strong defensive base. However, it's more commonly a strategic choice suited to specific teams' personnel rather than a universal solution."

"Despite these successes, a back three formation requires specific attributes from wing-backs who must be athletic and able to contribute both offensively and defensively. When these roles are not well executed, or the center-backs hesitate to press forward, teams can struggle defensively. Some teams have found difficulty adapting to the demands, resulting in defensive weaknesses. It's not a guaranteed winning formation but a tool that can be highly effective if well-suited to players and managed tactically."

"A back three formation tends to work well only with very good center-backs and fast, athletic wing-backs or wide players. Such players are necessary because the system puts higher physical and tactical demands on defenders and wing-backs, who must cover large spaces both defensively and offensively."

"If the wing-backs lack pace or defensive awareness, or if the center-backs are not comfortable covering wide areas, the back three system can collapse badly under pressure. The team risks getting stretched too thin defensively, allowing high-quality opponents to exploit space and score through counters or pressure on the flanks."

"It is not surprising that Premier League teams that have succeeded with a back three, such as Manchester City and Chelsea, are among the top teams, because this formation often requires very good players in the back three and fast, athletic wing-backs for it to work effectively."

"In contrast, many other teams have struggled with this formation because it demands specific player attributes and tactical discipline. Without very good centre-backs comfortable in wider defensive roles and wing-backs capable of both attacking and covering defensively, the formation can leave the team exposed and result in defensive instability. This makes it more suited to well-equipped and tactically astute teams at the higher end of the Premier League."

"So, top Premier League teams adopting a back three formation generally have the quality and tactical setup to make it successful, while less equipped teams might find it more challenging or risk collapse. This explains why the formation is more often seen with successful clubs like Manchester City and Chelsea."

During Ange's time with the Socceroos -- with particular focus on those last few months where his back-3 strategy was questioned by more and more people who understood what a back 3 is -- including me -- it became evident that Ange's stubbornness would be his downfall. And now at Tottenham and Notthingham Forest, we are seeing a rinse and repeat of that stubbornness that Ange showed with his insistence on a back 3 with the Socceroos at a time when we were losing so many games with WC qualification in doubt.

Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat its mistakes.
 
Last edited:
I argue that winning the J League is incredibly tough given how many good clubs there are. It's no mean feat.

In Scotland he turned the points deficit to Rangers totally around but the rest of the league just submits to the big clubs.
On a level playing field, Ange is fantastic. It's his tactics and motivating vs the other guy... In Australia no one had a significant advantage over anyone else, the same in Japan, in Scotland he had one rival (and the advantage that their coach was a joke).

When you stack the deck against him, it becomes very very difficult.

As I said previously, his mistake when leaving Celtic was to go to Spurs - a club outside the top rank, without the capacity (or the will) to compete with the dominent clubs. He's using the 'almost great' players rather than the great ones. I genuienly believe that Ange with Liverpool and Man City squad, continues to be the Ange we all know - but Ange with Spurs players, especially when the injuries took him to 2nd tier Spurs players, was always going to struggle. Ange with Forest players, even less chance. Add to that the expectations - Forest have just had their best season in decades, and the owner wasn't happy - that's a nightmare scenario to walk into. I get that Ange has huge self-confidence, but sometimes you have to be pragmatic about it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: LFC
Almost a waste of breath for those on social media referring to last league season. Spurs tanked it in order to focus on Europe. They had too many injuries and couldn't afford to go all out in both.

The same issue is starting to occur at Forest already. Injuries in a squad that's probably pissed off about the manager change.

The challenge to rectify this is exciting but the current status quo isn't. Plenty of talking points.
Injuries, because of questionable training methods, the same happened at Celtic as well, with hamstrings popping all over the place.
 
I argue that winning the J League is incredibly tough given how many good clubs there are. It's no mean feat.

In Scotland he turned the points deficit to Rangers totally around but the rest of the league just submits to the big clubs.
He only turned it around when Gerrard left and they changed to five subs mid-season, otherwise he would have got nowhere near Rangers, with all his injuries piling up.
 
The following is provided for your learning. It explains why on this recent Europa Cup game against Midtjylland on 2 October 2025, Ange's Nottingham had more possession and shots on goal, but why Notthingham leaked goals, as per the story at Tottenham. Thus, you can appreciate the stupidity of Ange using a back 3 when one of his backs, Murillo, was just coming back from injury, and got re-injured in the game after less than half an hour of play. As you recall from Ange's time at Tottenham, his formations require great athleticism from his back players - thus Ange having TWO seasons at Tottenham ravaged by injuries.


"In association football tactics, having 3 defenders at the back line is generally regarded as a formation that can be more attacking but also leaves the defense thinner and potentially weaker."

"A formation with three central defenders, such as the 3-4-3, often includes wing-backs (wide midfielders) who push high up the pitch to provide attacking width and support offensive plays. This allows the team to have more players involved in offense, often making the formation more aggressive and dynamic in attack. The wing-backs and midfielders can advance to overload wide areas and create more scoring opportunities. This formation enables fluid positional changes and can stretch the opposition defense by focusing on wide areas."

"However, having only three defenders inherently leaves the back line thinner compared to a four-defender setup. The three defenders, especially the wide center-backs, often have larger spaces to cover and may face more one-on-one defending situations. This can leave the team vulnerable to fast counter-attacks and overloads in the wide areas if the wing-backs are caught too far forward. The formation demands significant defensive discipline and stamina from wing-backs and midfielders to balance offensive support with defensive cover. Defensive lapses can be costly if the back three is stretched or caught out of position."

"Thus, the tactical trade-off with three defenders at the back is gaining attacking flexibility and width but potentially sacrificing defensive solidity and coverage. Teams using this system must manage the balance carefully to avoid leaving themselves exposed."

"Based on analysis of Premier League data and expert tactical reviews, using a back three formation has indeed been successful for certain teams, but its success largely depends on how it is implemented rather than the mere fact of using three defenders."

"Chelsea's 2016-17 Premier League title under Antonio Conte is one of the most prominent examples of a successful back three system. Conte switched to a 3-4-3 formation after an initial rough start to the season, and the team lost just three of 26 games in this setup, which was pivotal in their title run. The back three provided defensive solidity and allowed wing-backs to push forward and create attacking width, contributing to a strong balance of attack and defense."

"Manchester City, under Pep Guardiola, has also used variations of a back three effectively. Their approach often emphasizes possession and pressing, using the back three alongside an attacking midfield setup to dominate the game. This helped them maintain both defensive strength and offensive potency, exemplified by their very low goals conceded and high ball control rates with this system."

"The popularity of back three formations in the Premier League rose steadily over several seasons, peaking around 28-30% of games in some years but has recently seen some decline back to about 18% in 2024/25. Many teams experiment with three-center-back setups to exploit wing-backs' attacking roles while maintaining a strong defensive base. However, it's more commonly a strategic choice suited to specific teams' personnel rather than a universal solution."

"Despite these successes, a back three formation requires specific attributes from wing-backs who must be athletic and able to contribute both offensively and defensively. When these roles are not well executed, or the center-backs hesitate to press forward, teams can struggle defensively. Some teams have found difficulty adapting to the demands, resulting in defensive weaknesses. It's not a guaranteed winning formation but a tool that can be highly effective if well-suited to players and managed tactically."

"A back three formation tends to work well only with very good center-backs and fast, athletic wing-backs or wide players. Such players are necessary because the system puts higher physical and tactical demands on defenders and wing-backs, who must cover large spaces both defensively and offensively."

"If the wing-backs lack pace or defensive awareness, or if the center-backs are not comfortable covering wide areas, the back three system can collapse badly under pressure. The team risks getting stretched too thin defensively, allowing high-quality opponents to exploit space and score through counters or pressure on the flanks."

"It is not surprising that Premier League teams that have succeeded with a back three, such as Manchester City and Chelsea, are among the top teams, because this formation often requires very good players in the back three and fast, athletic wing-backs for it to work effectively."

"In contrast, many other teams have struggled with this formation because it demands specific player attributes and tactical discipline. Without very good centre-backs comfortable in wider defensive roles and wing-backs capable of both attacking and covering defensively, the formation can leave the team exposed and result in defensive instability. This makes it more suited to well-equipped and tactically astute teams at the higher end of the Premier League."

"So, top Premier League teams adopting a back three formation generally have the quality and tactical setup to make it successful, while less equipped teams might find it more challenging or risk collapse. This explains why the formation is more often seen with successful clubs like Manchester City and Chelsea."

During Ange's time with the Socceroos -- with particular focus on those last few months where his back-3 strategy was questioned by more and more people who understood what a back 3 is -- including me -- it became evident that Ange's stubbornness would be his downfall. And now at Tottenham and Notthingham Forest, we are seeing a rinse and repeat of that stubbornness that Ange showed with his insistence on a back 3 with the Socceroos at a time when we were losing so many games with WC qualification in doubt.

Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat its mistakes.
Wow thank you so much for your unnecessary lesson and assumed required learning.

I also appreciate the insight into your belief that you know more about a back 3 than what Ange would.

Thanks again
 
Any manager would have been on a hiding to nothing taking this gig - no preseason, takes over 3 games in, has 4 away games first up, fair amount of brand new players. Before this morning you'd say the team were looking pretty good all things considered.

Then the man who never has a plan B goes to three CBs and Murillo goes down again with some contact injury and he is forced to revert back. I mean Forest had a Leicester level run with injuries to their starting XI last season and Murillo and Milenkovic almost played every game together.

I get it after a while it eventually begins amounting to excuses, but everything has context and no one will convince me that the likes of Pep would be doing any better...I mean he wouldn't even have the balls to try!!
This..

I'm like you a fully paid up member of the Ange supporters club. Going into Forest or any other club in this current scenario is going to be difficult. Especially when you want to infuse your own particular way of playing into the squad of players, none of which you have bought yourself.

The only guy that I can think of who can do this effectively is a manager who works or worked predominantly in the English second tier and that is Neil Warnock. A specialist in turning clubs around in a very short period of time.

Although you definitely won't get an entertaining Ange-ballesque game fromm Neil. He's very much from the more pragmatic Charles Hughes school of English football coaching thought. It can often work in the short-medium term but not usually in the long term. One of the reasons why he's been a manager of a lot of different clubs.
 
This..

I'm like you a fully paid up member of the Ange supporters club. Going into Forest or any other club in this current scenario is going to be difficult. Especially when you want to infuse your own particular way of playing into the squad of players, none of which you have bought yourself.

The only guy that I can think of who can do this effectively is a manager who works or worked predominantly in the English second tier and that is Neil Warnock. A specialist in turning clubs around in a very short period of time.

Although you definitely won't get an entertaining Ange-ballesque game fromm Neil. He's very much from the more pragmatic Charles Hughes school of English football coaching thought. It can often work in the short-medium term but not usually in the long term. One of the reasons why he's been a manager of a lot of different clubs.
He failed miserably at Aberdeen last year.
 
He failed miserably at Aberdeen last year.
Yeah. He's in his mid 70's now. His heyday is probably long gone.



But he did have a record 8 promotions across his Football League career. He was regarded as a fire-fighter rather than a builder of teams.

The Dons had a great Scottish Cup victory last season but have struggled this season so far. Probably a lot of underlying problems there I'd say.
 
He only turned it around when Gerrard left and they changed to five subs mid-season, otherwise he would have got nowhere near Rangers, with all his injuries piling up.
Was it a 27 point turnaround on the previous season?
 
Oh but, Ange was successful, so there must have been some flaw in the system to allow him to achieve this. Got to remember how dire Celtic were under Lennon.
Oh the fan boy refuses to see the facts. You would shag him if you could.
 
Oh the fan boy refuses to see the facts. You would shag him if you could.
The fact is that Ange came in and did an excellent job for Celtic. Rangers had a good side and won their own things. H2H Rangers defeated Ange 3 of 12 games.
 
Another Ange fan boy, you Aussies really are a sad bunch.

Do you think that the whole of Scotland cheered on SAF in England with Manure ?
No, but that's their choice. I doubt they'd pass up the chance though to tell the English that a Scot was highly successful in their league.

What's wrong with supporting someone, perhaps even regardless of nationality?
 
Back
Top