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You are just a sad dumbass like muz.

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Yeah OK. The video has obviously been cut and I'm sure the lethal injection comment was in regards to the murderer.

Institutions didn't necessarily help people in last decades but just having them amongst the population is the worst idea. Too many incidents now and places turn into zombie town.
 

Wouldn't expect any less from Barley the witch!

In saying that Kirk doesn't need moments of silence around the world and his place was 99% The United States.
 
Wouldn't expect any less from Barley the witch!

In saying that Kirk doesn't need moments of silence around the world and his place was 99% The United States.

Oh my god another moron comment.

The same EU parliament literally gave a minute silence to George Floyd who dealt drugs and pointed guns at women.
 
Wouldn't expect any less from Barley the witch!

In saying that Kirk doesn't need moments of silence around the world and his place was 99% The United States.
Regardless you would think whether you’re left or right you would do the minute of silence to show you support the idea of free speech. It’s appalling. And if anyone is bringing up quotes he said in the past as an excuse just does not get it unfortunately
 
Regardless you would think whether you’re left or right you would do the minute of silence to show you support the idea of free speech. It’s appalling. And if anyone is bringing up quotes he said in the past as an excuse just does not get it unfortunately
Yes I agree with that. I was honestly surprise the Yankees did it given NY politics.

It's probably not tricky to just show respect right? I suppose the question how far should recognition of a topic go and to whom? A prominent figure and certainly others get overlooked.
 
Oh my god another moron comment.

The same EU parliament literally gave a minute silence to George Floyd who dealt drugs and pointed guns at women.
It'd be a big surprise if the EU parliament hadn't done such a thing.
 
Yes I agree with that. I was honestly surprise the Yankees did it given NY politics.

It's probably not tricky to just show respect right? I suppose the question how far should recognition of a topic go and to whom? A prominent figure and certainly others get overlooked.
Charlie Kirk is an easy case because it’s happened in the west and has a lot of attention. To ignore it is almost to say you accept these violations of free speech to be acceptable.

If it were to happen in a Latin or African country it holds less significance as some of these countries don’t hold the same commitment to free speech as us
 
Charlie Kirk is an easy case because it’s happened in the west and has a lot of attention. To ignore it is almost to say you accept these violations of free speech to be acceptable.

If it were to happen in a Latin or African country it holds less significance as some of these countries don’t hold the same commitment to free speech as us
That's right. Bit like South America and their total disinterest for the ME.
 
It doesn’t matter whether you or I think Kirk made rational or irrational points what matters is he, and all of us are entitled to make them. That’s the most basic fundamental building block of a free democratic society. It’s not like his views were fringe right extreme, he was basically just your garden variety right winger. He wasn’t famous or interesting for his views rather his ability to articulate them.

The big talking point wasn’t that Kirk said sometimes moderately objectionable things. It was that this was a domestic terrorist incident, a political assassination and an appalling attack on democracy. Those are the big ticket issues here. Yet the left don’t seem too perturbed by this, they are more concerned about some of the things Kirk said, such as something he said about empathy once. Like that’s the big talking point, not being murdered in front of your wife, kids and a bunch of college kids, but he once said he didn’t like empathy, and how he defended the second amendent. Whatever Kirk said or did through his life that people didn’t like is insignificant by a factor 100 million compared to what happened to him and the fact it was a political assassination and domestic terrorist incident, and millions of people are laughing about it. That ought to be the focus here, dont ya think?

A normal sane person would not take glee in another person being murdered for their political beliefs. Even if you heavily disagreed with him, a normal sane person would be more concerned about the wider ramifications of being murdered for your opinion and this increasingly normalised culture of gravedancing. Even dumbo Abbie Chatfield and other hard leftists understood that. They think “shit we dont like the guy but this is really bad for democracy. I wonder what happens next”. Yet the left cannot bring itself to collectively stand up for democracy, defend free speech and give space and time to Kirk’s mourners, so that society can perhaps rebuild and continue in a functional way. Instead they just want to shit all over his legacy, rip apart every sinew of his character and dance and shit all over his dead body. Simply because hate feel good.

So these are the kinds of values and norms the modern left embodies. Hatred, intolerance, savagery and assassination in place of dialogue and debate. Not exactly a good prognosis for a healthy democracy. I dont really give a shit about your whataboutisms to do with the right. The right was prepared to discuss and debate the things you didnt like about us but you guys shot him.

Time and time again I've said he shouldn't have been shot, as has just about everyone else, but don't expect me to feel sorry for a bloke who profited from hate filled rhetoric against minorities and women

Fuck him. And what are you going to say now it looks like, if, as it turns out they're saying, the shooter shot Kirk because he wasn't right wing enough.

You should wipe the spittle from your lips for the time being champ because you're going to look mighty stupid if it turns out he was a right wing nut job.

Of course you don't care about whataboutisns because then you'd have to comment on the 2 democrats that were shot dead or Pelosi's husband that got attacked by a hammer, both by right wing nut jobs, and that just wouldn't be fun for you.

As for this 'appalling attack on democracy'. One bloke gets shot and that's an 'attack on democracy', Trump fucking tried to engineer a literal coup and the dickhead got re-elected. If there was any justice he'd be rotting in jail like Bolsanaro for the next 27 years.

A bloke that was for public executions in front of children, sponsored by Coke (look it up), who spent a decade profiting from hate against minorities got publically shot in front of children. All in the middle of spewing hate speech against trans people with fake statistics and misinformation.

The irony is spectacular.

And it's actually pathetic that you think THIS is bad for democracy but a moron like Trump, who is literally turning America into an authoritarian and a fascist state, in real time, and it's only been 9 months, is the second coming of Christ.

You are special.
 
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Regardless you would think whether you’re left or right you would do the minute of silence to show you support the idea of free speech. It’s appalling. And if anyone is bringing up quotes he said in the past as an excuse just does not get it unfortunately

No I wouldn't support a minute of silence for an American provocateur whose stock in trade was hate.

I was at a grand final last night. Should there have been a minutes silence before the match started because I believe in free speech? How ridiculous.

As for bringing up quotes from the past how does that illustrate how we don't get it?

Those quotes lay bare what sort of a pathetic human he was. You think of all the hate and misery he brought down on anyone not white and Christian and you're saying we shouldn't be bringing up past quotes. What about all those people?

These quotes are directly relevant when you're remembering someone's legacy.

And what was his legacy exactly? That the poor white man was 'oppressed' or something, woman should get married and have kids and let their husbands vote, that civil rights were a mistake, that trans people are mentally ill.

What a guy.
 
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Time and time again I've said he shouldn't have been shot, as has just about everyone else, but don't expect me to feel sorry for a bloke who profited from hate filled rhetoric against minorities and women

Fuck him. And what are you going to say now it looks like, if, as it turns out they're saying, the shooter shot Kirk because he wasn't right wing enough.

You should wipe the spittle from your lips for the time being champ because you're going to look mighty stupid if it turns out he was a right wing nut job.

Of course you don't care about whataboutisns because then you'd have to comment on the 2 democrats that were shot dead or Pelosi's husband that got attacked by a hammer, both by right wing nut jobs, and that just wouldn't be fun for you.

As for this 'appalling attack on democracy'. One bloke gets shot and that's an 'attack on democracy', Trump fucking tried to engineer a literal coup and the dickhead got re-elected. If there was any justice he'd be rotting in jail like Bolsanaro for the next 27 years.

A bloke that was for public executions in front of children, sponsored by Coke (look it up), who spent a decade profiting from hate against minorities got publically shot in front of children. All in the middle of spewing hate speech against trans people with fake statistics and misinformation.

The irony is spectacular.

And it's actually pathetic that you think THIS is bad for democracy but a moron like Trump, who is literally turning America into an authoritarian and a fascist state, in real time, and it's only been 9 months, is the second coming of Christ.

You are special.
The hate feels good doesn’t it? I wonder if it’s even possible to be conservative or right wing these days without being accused of “hate filled rhetoric”. Like all the people who want to reduce mass migration are neo nazis, and all the people who believe in a gender binary are transphobes, and all the people who want to promote family and parenthood are misogynists when want to keep women chained to the kitchen.

The thing is you could substitute Kirk for any figure on the right and your response would be exactly the same. Dutton, Abbott, Rogan, Musk, Shapiro, Morgan, myself, any Fox News/Sky News anchors, if they would were assassinated you would say “fuck them” and gleefully dance on their graves. It’s not even possible to have contrary opinion these days without being called a right wing nut job and implying that assassination is nothing short of “chickens coming home to roost”.

It doesn’t bode well for democratic society does it? The interesting thing is the majority of people who debated Kirk did so in a vigorous yet respectful tone. Sure you’d get the odd far left loony who would just spew insults but the majority would actually engage in good faith and try to take on his ideas. Even the guy who asked Kirk the question when he was shot was arguing in good faith. also not forget that Kirk was only just recently invited to Cambridge to debate UK college students, and all of those debates were done in good faith and respectfully, a curious approach for someone who is apparently hate filled and hates women, gays and blacks.

Ya know, perhaps Kirk wasn’t this right wing fascist evil doer who hated blacks, gays and women and got what he deserved. Perhaps you and people like you are just fucking assholes who get their jollies out of seeing their political enemies get shot in front of their families. This is the modern left. Kind, tolerant, compassionate and empathic, who also happen to wish and death and suffering on their opponents.

The most interesting thing about your post is that you are now actively promoting far left extreme conspiracy theories such as that the shooter shot Kirk because he wasn’t right wing enough. This is definitely a shift from circa ~2024 muz who was albeit a leftard still had a semblance of common sense about him. Not anymore. I can only speculate that you’ve gone down the rabbit hole of radical left indoctrination and all those social media algorithms have completely warped your brain.

As for Pelosi and her husband or even the two Democrat law makers you won’t find any record of me anywhere making light and fun of what happened to those people. As much as I can’t stand Pelosi and the Democrats generally, I believe democracy and free speech are ideals worth fighting for. In fact you won’t find too many examples of anyone right anywhere cheering what happened, not in the wholesale sense as what we’ve seen with Kirk and the kind, modern, tolerant left. You won’t find much sympathy either, but this is markedly different from dancing and celebrating suffering and death.

But this bad conflation anyway because a) pelosi husband wasn’t a public figure, b) he didn’t die and c) Trump literally called the Minessota incident horrible. So it’s just a shit lazy dumb fuck conflation you are using to justify indulging in your base primeval hateful emotions about right wingers getting murdered.

Your claims about Trump trying to “engineer a coup” are also false. Where are the charges? Why isn’t he in jail? A person jumping up and down ranting “ waaaah waaaah Trump tried to engineer a coup” doesn’t make it so. Another bs conflation.

Thsse are all just baseless moronic conflations designed to distract from the reality that the left as gone completely feral , indulging in total abject moral poverty and is now basically this quasi fascist entity who condones, supports and celebrates the literal assassination of political opponents. And you have the gall to accuse Trump of being fascist.
 
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What I don't get as well even if one side is correct how do you get anywhere when you're just yelling at each other.

Someone needs to meet the other in the middle
 
What I don't get as well even if one side is correct how do you get anywhere when you're just yelling at each other.

Someone needs to meet the other in the middle

In theory yes but in reality if you cant agree to disagree you need to enforce your rights
 
It doesn’t matter whether you or I think Kirk made rational or irrational points what matters is he, and all of us are entitled to make them. That’s the most basic fundamental building block of a free democratic society. It’s not like his views were fringe right extreme, he was basically just your garden variety right winger. He wasn’t famous or interesting for his views rather his ability to articulate them.

The big talking point wasn’t that Kirk said sometimes moderately objectionable things. It was that this was a domestic terrorist incident, a political assassination and an appalling attack on democracy. Those are the big ticket issues here. Yet the left don’t seem too perturbed by this, they are more concerned about some of the things Kirk said, such as something he said about empathy once. Like that’s the big talking point, not being murdered in front of your wife, kids and a bunch of college kids, but he once said he didn’t like empathy, and how he defended the second amendent. Whatever Kirk said or did through his life that people didn’t like is insignificant by a factor 100 million compared to what happened to him and the fact it was a political assassination and domestic terrorist incident, and millions of people are laughing about it. That ought to be the focus here, dont ya think?

A normal sane person would not take glee in another person being murdered for their political beliefs. Even if you heavily disagreed with him, a normal sane person would be more concerned about the wider ramifications of being murdered for your opinion and this increasingly normalised culture of gravedancing. Even dumbo Abbie Chatfield and other hard leftists understood that. They think “shit we dont like the guy but this is really bad for democracy. I wonder what happens next”. Yet the left cannot bring itself to collectively stand up for democracy, defend free speech and give space and time to Kirk’s mourners, so that society can perhaps rebuild and continue in a functional way. Instead they just want to shit all over his legacy, rip apart every sinew of his character and dance and shit all over his dead body. Simply because hate feel good.

So these are the kinds of values and norms the modern left embodies. Hatred, intolerance, savagery and assassination in place of dialogue and debate. Not exactly a good prognosis for a healthy democracy. I dont really give a shit about your whataboutisms to do with the right. The right was prepared to discuss and debate the things you didnt like about us but you guys shot him.
Kirk could say whatever he wanted. No matter how wrong he was too. It's just laughable seeing the right try to argue for his free speech, but not anyone on the left.

It was not moderately objective. He said some pretty hate filled shit. What is an appalling attack on democracy was storming the capital on 6th January. Witnessing school shooting after school shooting, and responding with, "we don't need gun laws" or that "some deaths are required". The left is concerned that a murder could happen the way it did, because had the right got on board with gun control and gun laws, Kirk would be alive today. You keep trying to raw up empathy, "he was murdered in front of his wife". Thousands of school kids have been murdered in front of their friends, family, and teachers year after year. Like i've said before, I don't condemn murder, but i can understand why he had haters. Keep stripping away someone humanity and creating hordes of people who engage in hateful speech and actions without consequence, and you're bound to have enemies.

Anyone, pointless getting into the rest of it. Simple because the right have been actively stripping away peoples rights, humanity, and destroying the political landscape by advocating and proposing fascist ideology. You are coming on here trying to plead for rationality and fairness, but refuse to accept that all the things you are accusing the left of are exactly the things the right have peddled for years. The fact that you are choosing to ignore that says everything. Charlie was never ready to debate, he was ready to ridicule and demean. I feel sorry for his loss, I really do, however, I'm not going to be lectured on decency or empathy by people like you.

Btw, coming on here using vulgar language attacking Muz doesn't support the point you are making.
 
U.S. lawmaker Clay Higgins said in a post on X that anyone who "ran their mouth with their smartass hatred celebrating the heinous murder of that beautiful young man" needed to be "banned from ALL PLATFORMS FOREVER." The U.S. Deputy Secretary of State Christopher Landau said on the same site that he had been disgusted to "see some on social media praising, rationalizing, or making light of the event, and have directed our consular officials to undertake appropriate action."


Republicans' anger at those disrespecting Kirk's legacy contrasts with the mockery some of the same figures – including Kirk – directed at past victims of political violence.

For example, when former House Speaker Nancy Pelosi's husband Paul was clubbed over the head by a hammer-wielding conspiracy theorist during a break-in at their San Francisco home shortly before the 2022 midterm elections, Higgins posted a photo making fun of the attack.

 
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So I guess who should be the bigger person? Those students should've walked away and not engaged. The paradox is by not engaging they're not doing what Kirk wanted, debate. In turn his opponents also wouldn't have been able to try to set the record straight.
Maybe he should’ve walked away?

If he did this shit in a bar he probably would’ve copped it 30 times by now.

I’m not saying anything about the killling. I just find it hilarious that free speech advocates are losing their shit because people think Kirk was a cunt.
 
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This is the issue, there's always victim blaming on both sides - so now appears to be a moment for 'what's good for the goose is good for the gander' or whatever the saying is.
I'm sure Kirk didn't condone school shootings but maybe he felt it also sympathised his view of it being a by product of the system. This is how people then gaslight. They don't address and issue and then they get asked up front about it and respond 'of course I condemn that'. It's a convenient response to still appear the good guy while not thoroughly addressing the matter at hand.
Correct - my understanding is that he compared it to road accidents (eg, we have so many road accidents, but we accept that as a necessary 'cost' because of the benefit that vehicle/road usage brings to us).

Which.. is still wrong and stupid, but very much not an 'who cares about school shootings'

What I don't get as well even if one side is correct how do you get anywhere when you're just yelling at each other.

Someone needs to meet the other in the middle
Very true. Which leads me to...
Do you think trans people are mentally ill?
In the context of that discussion, why is this relevant?
 
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