Breaking Barriers - web series 📺

[Monoethnic Social Club]

TBH I know where you are coming from. But his model will likely benefit a club like SMFC well before his chosen club has a hope in hell.

The bloke is going to spend 10-15 years getting his "project" up to the same place as Hellas and Preston and Heidelberg are now...and then what? Its either stump up 50 mill (by then if not more) to appease the ponzi scheme or just play in the NPL every year and go through the motions like we all have been for two decades...

The ONLY hope is the Australian Championships linking up with ALL below.... the APL will sell their own mothers to stop it, even if it means allowing a handfull of wogsies into their "tent" A1 and A2??? Jesus Christ these people...

 

[patjennings]

I guess the question is why do we think relegation means death? P and r tends to mean clubs are on the one hand more financially volatile but have a higher survival rate (i know thats counter intuitive)

No matter how bad things get the hope that a pyramid gives keeps things alive

I think the point is that it does mean death in a number of ways for A-League clubs. Compare Marconi with WSW. If Marconi won their way to A1 - with their solid base, history, home ground an alternate revenue streams I think they could compete well either in the professional game or on a semi-pro basis.

Then consider WSW, if they dropped to A2 their playing roster would drop, apart from the media money (not that much), their backroom staff would drop, sponsorship would stop, their academy would drop, they don't own their own ground unless you think of Wanderers Park. If they remain at Commbank they are unsustainable with game day money going to the lease holder . Can they get back up - maybe - could they sustain a drop out of A2 - not a chance. Marconi and the other hand with their alternate revenue streams can just tailor their spend to their place easily,

I think the 'relegation step' out of A2 and back to NPL is too far for ALM clubs - they are not set up to run as a semi pro club, I guess from a club that can survive lower like Marconi they could just opt out of the A1/A2 setup and play where they want if they believe the spend is unjustified each season.

The distinction between an associate license ~ $1m and a full license (buying a stake in A Leagues overall and sharing profits or my likely losses) is interesting. i.e. You have the ground, lights, academy etc pay your one off license fee of $1M and stay where you are. Win promotion you are in.

 

[Monoethnic Social Club]

Interesting, the APL's model was Windley's model (at least partly)

C'mon Grazor, its fairly transparent whats going on here?

This A1-A2 proposal was APL's brainchild as dictated to Rugari nearly 3 years ago... How much or how little Windley had to do with it at the time is questionable but he has certainly embraced it as his own idea now...

It came to light at a time when there was the most postivity around the NST and pro rel to NPLs... Its a disruptor nothing else... and something ike it will come up EVERY SINGLE time there is a bit of celar sky for the game here that doesnt involve the APL ....

Revealed: The plan to embrace promotion and relegation in the A-League

As Football Australia forges ahead with plans for a national second division, A-League clubs have been presented with an alternative model that would see the best clubs introduced to the top tier.

www.theage.com.au

Get A-League second tier up and running first, then talk pro-rel: PFA

The A-League players' union believes a fully professional national second division is a genuine possibility by 2021.

www.brisbanetimes.com.au

 

[Monoethnic Social Club]

My blood is boiling after listening to that. The AFL threatening the Team 11 bid. The government worker incorrectly telling FFA that Team 11 is not getting a dollar.

The opportunity of a lifetime lost forever to the sport. I'm glad Matt got this stuff of his chest, I have no doubt it would've been traumatic, hopefully this chat was therapeutic for him. It's bloody scarred me!

I think you need to listen again... AFL didnt do anything.... a certain AFL person was trying to get another certain person to sponsor their AFL team at teh time... thats all.

 

[patjennings]

The bloke is going to spend 10-15 years getting his "project" up to the same place as Hellas and Preston and Heidelberg are now...and then what? Its either stump up 50 mill (by then if not more) to appease the ponzi scheme or just play in the NPL every year and go through the motions like we all have been for two decades...

The ONLY hope is the Australian Championships linking up with ALL below.... the APL will sell their own mothers to stop it, even if it means allowing a handfull of wogsies into their "tent" A1 and A2??? Jesus Christ these people...

That is not what he is saying - as he said - there are less and less greenfield sites around Australia. Hhe quoted ~ $1M for an associate license. Something much less than SMFC offered when they went up against WUN.

The point being I guess is that it is a proposal that ratchets up pressure on the APL to accept more clubs without the Ponzi scheme, over the top, you're in even if you pay enough money even if you have no stadium a la WUN.

 

[Monoethnic Social Club]

I wasn't a fan of A1 playing A2. I could definitely understand it from an economic view, but I actually didn't care if we lost derbies for a year or two, so be it, makes us hungrier to get it back.

But what's changed my mind was thinking of it as a replacement for a league cup! And it's actually probably better than a league cup because even in a LC group format (say four groups of four) you would have to play a team from your own league for a third time (maybe more with the knockouts), which is a waste unless the APL want to manufacture another fixture for derbies. And it's better than the minimum of just three matches, you get another eight or more unique opponents. I hope that makes sense, it's late .

If the idea is sold as integrating a league cup into the league itself, then it might convert a few more sceptics. I think it was my only worry from the concept, but I'm all up for it now. Let's get it on!

This will kill ANY ambition for any club outside the ALeague... and probably ahstedn the dimise fo teh Aleague btw...

Having a Perth or a Wellington (or whatever) howevering around the bottom of A2 without any incentive to improve on the pithc isnt doing anyobody any favours... OR any differnt from now.. Is it all worth it just to "say" we have pro/rel??? Its a farce...

 

[Monoethnic Social Club]

Its miles better than the status quo but misses some key benefits of p and r which I'll question Matt on tomorrow (amicably of course)

Sure, why dont you ask him why he his new project club isnt immune to relgation next year but his beloved APL clubs are? Is he so vested in protecting someone elses money? Why?

 

[patjennings]

I think you need to listen again... AFL didnt do anything.... a certain AFL person was trying to get another certain person to sponsor their AFL team at teh time... thats all.

I think it was more an AFL person talking to a bunch of councils and saying you need to get behind the AFL - not like those evil councils in Dandenong and Casey supporting that 'foreign game'. TBH - that's their view and they can plead it anyway they want.

 

[Monoethnic Social Club]

Its miles better than the status quo but misses some key benefits of p and r which I'll question Matt on tomorrow (amicably of course)

How is it miles better? Having Avondale "promoted" to A2 and then squatting on a license forever collecting nonexistent TV distribution while another 100 other clubs try and get in???

 

[Monoethnic Social Club]

I think the point is that it does mean death in a number of ways for A-League clubs. Compare Marconi with WSW. If Marconi won their way to A1 - with their solid base, history, home ground an alternate revenue streams I think they could compete well either in the professional game or on a semi-pro basis.

Then consider WSW, if they dropped to A2 their playing roster would drop, apart from the media money (not that much), their backroom staff would drop, sponsorship would stop, their academy would drop, they don't own their own ground unless you think of Wanderers Park. If they remain at Commbank they are unsustainable with game day money going to the lease holder . Can they get back up - maybe - could they sustain a drop out of A2 - not a chance. Marconi and the other hand with their alternate revenue streams can just tailor their spend to their place easily,

I think the 'relegation step' out of A2 and back to NPL is too far for ALM clubs - they are not set up to run as a semi pro club, I guess from a club that can survive lower like Marconi they could just opt out of the A1/A2 setup and play where they want if they believe the spend is unjustified each season.

The distinction between an associate license ~ $1m and a full license (buying a stake in A Leagues overall and sharing profits or my likely losses) is interesting. i.e. You have the ground, lights, academy etc pay your one off license fee of $1M and stay where you are. Win promotion you are in.

So basically rewarding the lack of connection to community of the exisitng franchises? Wouldnt it be better for football in this country to force them (in a way) to run leaner, better and stronger... MAtt talks about engaging with 1k matchday attendance... sure as a gimmik he may do it, but will his fanbase sticka round through 20 euars of being ocked out of the APL top flight... lets see.

If he was a true football person, his ambition would lie in making the Championship a fully pro league NOT sucking p to the APL, who ultimately rejected him..... (or did they?)

 

[patjennings]

So basically rewarding the lack of connection to community of the exisitng franchises? Wouldnt it be better for football in this country to force them (in a way) to run leaner, better and stronger... MAtt talks about engaging with 1k matchday attendance... sure as a gimmik he may do it, but will his fanbase sticka round through 20 euars of being ocked out of the APL top flight... lets see.

If he was a true football person, his ambition would lie in making the Championship a fully pro league NOT sucking p to the APL, who ultimately rejected him..... (or did they?)

Having been a member for over 20 years of CCM I can tell you that the AFL has not been the bad guy up here. It has been the Council. Wyong Council were good, Gosford Council and now the combined Central Coast Council shockers. Lack of community connection doesn't necessarily come from the clubs - it is sometimes mandated against

We could have had own hotel, Clubhouse, been the leaseholder of Polytec Stadium plus a whole lot more generating our own revenue streams that would have made a drop down the ladders easy to maintain. Charlesworth was a great proponent of promotion and relegation and I lean to agreeing with him.

However, if the ALM clubs that want to connect to the community aren't allowed to over the long term a la SMFC, Marconi et al then you kill off the ambition of every regional team.

 

[Monoethnic Social Club]

Having been a member for over 20 years of CCM I can tell you that the AFL has not been the bad guy up here. It has been the Council. Wyong Council were good, Gosford Council and now the combined Central Coast Council shockers. Lack of community connection doesn't necessarily come from the clubs - it is sometimes mandated against

We could have had own hotel, Clubhouse, been the leaseholder of Polytec Stadium plus a whole lot more generating our own revenue streams that would have made a drop down the ladders easy to maintain. Charlesworth was a great proponent of promotion and relegation and I lean to agreeing with him.

However, if the ALM clubs that want to connect to the community aren't allowed to over the long term a la SMFC, Marconi et al then you kill off the ambition of every regional team.

Sorry I dont understand how they are prevented from connecting with their community ... Even without local council buy in?

CCM is a great little club, in a unique area, with soccer mad people all around it... If they allowed ownership of the club , at least partially, to dedicated members, treated their "rusted ons" with a measure of dignity and NOT as customers they could develop a "Mariners vs the whole world" siege mentality and ride the waves of pro rel, even banishment from Australian football... I like that clubs can be big clubs or small clubs, it happens all around the world, here we are just limiting the ecosystem based on a formula decide 20 years ago... why CAN"T CCM be more immune to relegation than Marconi or Hellas... we does it HAVE to have some cashed up owner and compete in the Aleague with the security of NO relegation in order to thrive?

 

[HappyGuus]

This will kill ANY ambition for any club outside the ALeague... and probably ahstedn the dimise fo teh Aleague btw...

Having a Perth or a Wellington (or whatever) howevering around the bottom of A2 without any incentive to improve on the pithc isnt doing anyobody any favours... OR any differnt from now.. Is it all worth it just to "say" we have pro/rel??? Its a farce...

I think I've got to the stage where I'm not looking for perfect because it's just not going to happen any time soon. And I trust how the Japanese successfully went about it. What incentive has there been for their bottom teams for over 30 years?

I can't see how it kills ambition of clubs outside, I thought it's the exact opposite by opening the door to promotion?

 

[patjennings]

Sorry I dont understand how they are prevented from connecting with their community ... Even without local council buy in?

CCM is a great little club, in a unique area, with soccer mad people all around it... If they allowed ownership of the club , at least partially, to dedicated members, treated their "rusted ons" with a measure of dignity and NOT as customers they could develop a "Mariners vs the whole world" siege mentality and ride the waves of pro rel, even banishment from Australian football... I like that clubs can be big clubs or small clubs, it happens all around the world, here we are just limiting the ecosystem based on a formula decide 20 years ago... why CAN"T CCM be more immune to relegation than Marconi or Hellas... we does it HAVE to have some cashed up owner and compete in the Aleague with the security of NO relegation in order to thrive?

My argument is that SMFC and Marconi have been allowed to connect to the community via developing their own social club and infrastructure - CCM have not. This has happened over decades, not just 20 years. From my own club point of view if we had had that opportunity over the years without council blocking then dropping down would not be a death sentence. Each club will have their own story,

Charlesworth was working with the fans for an ownership stake but Peil's appearance put that on the backburner as he was against the idea apparently.

 

[Monoethnic Social Club]

I think I've got to the stage where I'm not looking for perfect because it's just not going to happen any time soon. And I trust how the Japanese successfully went about it. What incentive has there been for their bottom teams for over 30 years?

I can't see how it kills ambition of clubs outside, I thought it's the exact opposite by opening the door to promotion?

And thats EXACTLY what they hope to achieve... kill any hope of "normal football" outside of their control... its so soul destroyingly wrong and the well meaning idiots repeating the protectionist mantra are shooting off their noses to spite their faces.... the sad thing is I suspect they know it too.

So you can honestly tell me that splitting a struggling Aleague (even after the tokenistic addition of a few more franchises and even a sell out NPL club or two) And having relegation of 1-2 franchises to a Aleague lite version is going to force CCM to recruit better players or Perth to hire a manager that understands football? The point behind all of this is that it was never JUST about promotion (otherwise they can expand the APL till forever) but promotion AND relegation.. There have to be consequences for failure to make a club want to do better. The APL clubs dont care about doing better on the pitch its Off it they care about... If you are satisfied with that, no problem, but their are thousands of clubs (at least 60 odd that signed up to the initial AAFC) who want the whole up and down merry-go-round and to test themselves on the football pitch not just in the crypto-wallet.

It can happen tomorrow... a h/a Australian Championship made up of the top 16 NPL clubs in the country ... The ONLY barrier is APL and people like Rugari and WIndley...... and if SMFC doesn't qualify on the ptich... fuck it we dont deserve to be there...

 

[patjennings]

...

It can happen tomorrow... a h/a Australian Championship made up of the top 16 NPL clubs in the country ... The ONLY barrier is APL and people like Rugari and WIndley...... and if SMFC doesn't qualify on the ptich... fuck it we dont deserve to be there...

A home and away Australian Championship is being blocked by the FA - not by the APL. I'd love it to be in place now. CCM (in concert with CCF) could survive there if there was full promotion and relegation and would fancy their chances of bouncing straight up.

 

[HappyGuus]

So you can honestly tell me that splitting a struggling Aleague (even after the tokenistic addition of a few more franchises and even a sell out NPL club or two) And having relegation of 1-2 franchises to a Aleague lite version is going to force CCM to recruit better players or Perth to hire a manager that understands football?

Well again, what incentive has there been for the Japanese clubs for over 30 years? I don't know that answer, but I know it's the answer you're looking for

It's taken them 30 years to fully open their doors and they were in a much much better position than we are.

I know you have all valid concerns. I just don't want you to keep banging your head against the wall like I was If we have a way in for all clubs then that's great and the priority.

 

[erogenouszone]

Thats even if you can get past (without dying of laughter) at the idea that they think they have grass roots / community roots....

He's a weathervane, the scumbag supported the NCIP 100% so he can go fuck himself.

 

[Monoethnic Social Club]

A home and away Australian Championship is being blocked by the FA - not by the APL. I'd love it to be in place now. CCM (in concert with CCF) could survive there if there was full promotion and relegation and would fancy their chances of bouncing straight up.

And who holds the majority of the votes on FA board?

 

[Monoethnic Social Club]

Well again, what incentive has there been for the Japanese clubs for over 30 years? I don't know that answer, but I know it's the answer you're looking for

It's taken them 30 years to fully open their doors and they were in a much much better position than we are.

I know you have all valid concerns. I just don't want you to keep banging your head against the wall like I was If we have a way in for all clubs then that's great and the priority.

Guus, the Japanese came up with a 100 year plan to one day be a world force in football on the global stage.

Not in etnertainment, not in return on investement, not in mainstream popularity but the best AT FOOTBALL.

They are on the way... we are making Welcome to Wrxeham and doing "Festival of footballs" everywhere.