Asian Champions League 1 and 2 thread

[Keeper66]

Mate, a forum is a place to express different opinions.

I enjoy Kitwally's contributions as I enjoy most of yours. Instead of just repudiating his opinion, provide specific strengths and weaknesses of T's skill set as to why he isn't currently Socceroo calibre. We should respect differing opinions and agree to disagree.

T would not be the first player to succeed overseas, whilst being overlooked in Aus. Scottish striker, Lyndon Dykes, and Bailey Wright come to mind.

Coaches can be very subjective - and can differ markedly from each other.

When I was in the FFA state system, all 4 of my senior coaches in the FFA Tech Dept - SAP, state TD, NTC, state coach, gave me an analysis of one game where the Southern Tas U 14s played. All were completely different - as to who played well, who didn't, and what the team needed to do to improve!

Yes, it is a place for different opinions, and I expressed my opinion that he is an NPL level player.

And I agree that some players get overlooked in Australia but make it overseas. Volpato is another one. The differences are, compared to Temelkovski, that they (Dykes, Wright, Volpato) were quite young (teens or 20) and were still very much developing, while Temelkovski is 27.The other difference is, and this is more relevant in terms of national team consideration, that those other players made their names and were playing in European leagues that are of a significantly higher standard than Hong Kong.

Suggesting that a journeyman who couldn’t crack the A League but happens to score a few goals in the Hong Kong league should be considered a national team player is silly.

 

[Decentric]

Yes, it is a place for different opinions, and I expressed my opinion that he is an NPL level player.

And I agree that some players get overlooked in Australia but make it overseas. Volpato is another one. The differences are, compared to Temelkovski, that they (Dykes, Wright, Volpato) were quite young (teens or 20) and were still very much developing, while Temelkovski is 27.The other difference is, and this is more relevant in terms of national team consideration, that those other players made their names and were playing in European leagues that are of a significantly higher standard than Hong Kong.

Suggesting that a journeyman who couldn’t crack the A League but happens to score a few goals in the Hong Kong league should be considered a national team player is silly.

In your opinion it is silly, but it could have been advanced more diplomatically.

Rodrigo Vargas, Sasha Ogegnovksi, transitioned late from NPL to AL, and one of the MacArthur CBs ( Uskok or the other) was a NPL CB until the age of 28.

Ogger went on to play AL after NPL, then played K League, ACL and ended up as a Socceroo aged in his 30s. His career was still on an upward trajectory when Lucas Neill's was declining at a similar age.

In seminars with Ange, Phil Moss and Kevin Muscat, all said it is an inexact science as to why some players develop really late to hit their peak, and others develop at an early age and fade out early.

There is some other Aussie striker in Portugal who at age 30 has started scoring a lot of goals. It might be Portugal Div 2?

Didn't realise Volpato was overlooked in Aus? That is news to me. A big loss to Aus if he doesn't make himself unavailable as a Socceroo. Read a recent article where Volpato has recently sought Alex Circati's advice about playing for Aus.

 

[Decentric]

Analyst or a managers assistant is his sweet spot. Manager is a step too far for him. Can be the nice guy to the players (assistant) - but doesn't command respect as manager

Interesting, PJ.

I've done 2 coach education sessions under Phil Moss's tutelage. They were both excellent.

Plenty of coaches make good assistant coaches, but struggle as senior coaches. Would have thought PM would still be coaching as an AL assistant somewhere.

 

[melbcityguy]

Interesting, PJ.

I've done 2 coach education sessions under Phil Moss's tutelage. They were both excellent.

Plenty of coaches make good assistant coaches, but struggle as senior coaches. Would have thought PM would still be coaching as an AL assistant somewhere.

Haha his just a guy on the Internet commenting and you've met the actual guy haha great laugh that

 

[Hillbilly55]

There seems to be a cosmic shift away from the Chinese teams level of performance vis a vis several years ago.

 

[Kitwally]

Has an Aus ACL team played against his team?

I know the name, but can’t remember his playing idiosyncrasies?

MacArthur lost to his team, Eastern, and he scored I think

 

[patjennings]

Haha his just a guy on the Internet commenting and you've met the actual guy haha great laugh that

Decentric met him a coach education where his analytical acumen would show. I watched him live both in game and training and saw the players interact with him. I have also met the guy on a number of occasions. He can be good or even excellent for one role but struggle in others. Horses for courses. IIRC Decentric didn't have access to ALM until recently so his main exposure is coloured by his interactions just as mine are coloured by my interactions.

What we both agree is that he is an excellent analyst.

 

[Keeper66]

In your opinion it is silly, but it could have been advanced more diplomatically.

Rodrigo Vargas, Sasha Ogegnovksi, transitioned late from NPL to AL, and one of the MacArthur CBs ( Uskok or the other) was a NPL CB until the age of 28.

Ogger went on to play AL after NPL, then played K League, ACL and ended up as a Socceroo aged in his 30s. His career was still on an upward trajectory when Lucas Neill's was declining at a similar age.

In seminars with Ange, Phil Moss and Kevin Muscat, all said it is an inexact science as to why some players develop really late to hit their peak, and others develop at an early age and fade out early.

There is some other Aussie striker in Portugal who at age 30 has started scoring a lot of goals. It might be Portugal Div 2?

Didn't realise Volpato was overlooked in Aus? That is news to me. A big loss to Aus if he doesn't make himself unavailable as a Socceroo. Read a recent article where Volpato has recently sought Alex Circati's advice about playing for Australia.

Could have been advanced more diplomatically? Give me strength! I’m not going to tippy-toe around with my posts, just in case someone gets their feelings hurt. It’s not like I abused the guy and questioned his parentage, etc. In any case, if he has a problem with it I’m sure he can bring it up himself, he doesn’t need you to be his protector.

I am very familiar with those players you mention, The difference with someone like Ognenovski is that no one was touting his international potential when he was playing NPL, he proved himself in the A League and got his international chance. He wasn’t playing in a low level Hong Kong league.

And another thing, just about every post you make you seem to need to name drop various well known coaches who you have had interactions with in the past, in most cases with little or tenuous relevance to the subject at hand. Give it a rest, we’ve all heard it multiple times before.

 

[Decentric]

Decentric met him a coach education where his analytical acumen would show. I watched him live both in game and training and saw the players interact with him. I have also met the guy on a number of occasions. He can be good or even excellent for one role but struggle in others. Horses for courses. IIRC Decentric didn't have access to ALM until recently so his main exposure is coloured by his interactions just as mine are coloured by my interactions.

What we both agree is that he is an excellent analyst.

Fair comments, PJ.

PM seems like a nice bloke.

 

[Decentric]

Could have been advanced more diplomatically? Give me strength! I’m not going to tippy-toe around with my posts, just in case someone gets their feelings hurt. It’s not like I abused the guy and questioned his parentage, etc. In any case, if he has a problem with it I’m sure he can bring it up himself, he doesn’t need you to be his protector.

I am very familiar with those players you mention, The difference with someone like Ognenovski is that no one was touting his international potential when he was playing NPL, he proved himself in the A League and got his international chance. He wasn’t playing in a low level Hong Kong league.

And another thing, just about every post you make you seem to need to name drop various well known coaches who you have had interactions with in the past, in most cases with little or tenuous relevance to the subject at hand. Give it a rest, we’ve all heard it multiple times before.

It is often related to players discussed, to add insights from pro coaches that others of us don’t have.

I’ve recruited quite a number of posters to this forum, and, I get complaints about some long term posters who love biff, giving them a hard time. The recruits then leave G and G.

I desperately want G and G to keep growing. Most internet posters want civil discussion and refrain from online biff.

I try to be civil and respectful offline in person, and online.

 

[patjennings]

Fair comments, PJ.

PM seems like a nice bloke.

He is - and I always found him very insightful. I think the transition from working with Arnie to going out on his own opened my eyes to the vast difference in the two roles.

 

[Keeper66]

It is often related to players discussed, to add insights from pro coaches that others of us don’t have.

I’ve recruited quite a number of posters to this forum, and, I get complaints about some long term posters who love biff, giving them a hard time. The recruits then leave G and G.

I desperately want G and G to keep growing. Most internet posters want civil discussion and refrain from online biff.

I try to be civil and respectful offline in person, and online.

This was my original reply to Kitwally:

FFS, he is an NPL level player.

If you consider that to be “online biff”, as you call it, then you have wildly different views to me. At worst, that comment was mildly robust. It was not playing the man.

 

[Decentric]

Haha his just a guy on the Internet commenting and you've met the actual guy haha great laugh that

I think PJ knows him too.

 

[Decentric]

He is - and I always found him very insightful. I think the transition from working with Arnie to going out on his own opened my eyes to the vast difference in the two roles.

There are a number of coaches who find it difficult going from an assistant to a head coach.

I find Phil M's insights in the ACL informative too.

 

[Decentric]

I've never been to an acl match very keen

I thought I asked you a few games ago and you said you attended a Tuesday ACL night game?

Sorry, MCG, this might have been a post from you ages ago! I’m on my phone, and I’m hopeless on it!

The tickets are supposedly more expensive.

 

[Decentric]

People who are negative about the ACL should recall the huge interest in that first season or two our clubs participated. Then when it became apparent that our clubs weren't nearly as good as we thought, interest plummeted. Unrealistic to expect supporters to engage after year upon year of disappointment.

I remember being at Suncorp when the all conquering Roar were outclassed by FC Tokyo. I would have saved a lot of time and money if I had stayed home and had someone throw a cold bucket of water over me instead.

Which is how it will be while we have a salary cap. I get the argument for the cap, I really do, but in the broader scope it has crippled the game in this country.

I’m even more interested in ACL than AL.

I’ve never understood why so few others feel the same way?

As long as the AL teams are filled with Aussies not imports, I love seeing the huge stadia, different crowds, different players, and Aussies playing foreign players.

 

[melbcityguy]

I thought I asked you a few games ago and you said you attended a Tuesday ACL night game?

Sorry, MCG, this might have been a post from you ages ago! I’m on my phone, and I’m hopeless on it!

The tickets are supposedly more expensive.

Been to a few since that post

 

[Decentric]

Been to a few since that post

Good on you.

City are doing Aus proud in the ACL.

 

[HappyGuus]

 

[Brenton1986]

ACL Two round of 16 draw:
Al Zawraa – Iraq v Al Wasl – United Arab Emirates
FK Arkadag – Turkmenistan v Al Nasr – Saudi Arabia
Sepahan – Iran v Al Ahli – Qatar
Esteghlal – Iran v Al Hussein – Jordan
Pohang Steelers – South Korea v Gamba Osaka – Japan
Ratchaburi – Thailand v Persib Bandung – Indonesia
Bangkok United – Thailand v Macarthur – Australia
Cong An Hanoi – Vietnam v Tampines Rovers – Singapore

ACL Two quarter final draw:
Al Zawraa – Iraq/Al Wasl – United Arab Emirates v FK Arkadag – Turkmenistan/Al Nasr – Saudi Arabia
Sepahan – Iran/Al Ahli – Qatar v Esteghlal – Iran/Al Hussein – Jordan
Pohang Steelers – South Korea/Gamba Osaka – Japan v Ratchaburi – Thailand/Persib Bandung – Indonesia
Bangkok United – Thailand/Macarthur – Australia v Cong An Hanoi – Vietnam/Tampines Rovers – Singapore

ACL Two semi final draw,

West region:
Al Zawraa – Iraq/Al Wasl – United Arab Emirates/FK Arkadag – Turkmenistan/Al Nasr – Saudi Arabia v Sepahan – Iran/Al Ahli – Qatar/Esteghlal – Iran/Al Hussein – Jordan

East region:
Pohang Steelers – South Korea/Gamba Osaka – Japan/Ratchaburi – Thailand/Persib Bandung – Indonesia v Bangkok United – Thailand/Macarthur – Australia/Cong An Hanoi – Vietnam/Tampines Rovers – Singapore